John Kelly’s Pāli Class 2024 (G&K) Class 11

Thread for discussing John Kelly’s Pāli Class 2024 (G&K) Class 11 for the class on May 26th / 27th 2024.

Meeting ID: 829 5896 1475
Passcode: anicca

You will need to remain in the “waiting room” until host lets you in.

Homework preparation for this class:
• Study G&K Lesson V: Grammar – sections 1-4, pp. 67-70
• Study G&K Glossary IV-2, pp. 59-62
• Complete G&K Lesson IV: Further Readings 1-4, pp. 56-59
• Optional: If time and energy permit
– Study G&K Glossary V-1, pp. 64-67
– Complete G&K Lesson V: Readings 1, p. 63


Dear @johnk,

I have to excuse myself from your class. Apparently, the job assignment with this client is on-going until their court case is finalised.

Apologies. :pray:


That’s okay, Dheerayupa. Thanks for letting me know.

You’ve certainly had a good run with both this class and the Warder one before it. Keep up your good work with the Pāli study in your own time. This forum is always here as a place to get your Pāli questions answered.


Thank you so much. I really am grateful to you and @stephen.

:pray: :sunflower: :sparkling_heart:


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Important Notice re Pāli Class

Greetings everyone, I have some travel planned this coming summer/winter (June to August), so there will be some disruption to the normal Pāli class schedule.

I’ve spoken to Stephen and he has kindly agreed to fill in for me and lead the class on most of the dates I am unavailable.

Here’s the plan (note that dates are Sunday/Monday dates, depending on your time zone).

May 26/27 and June 2/3 - no change. I’ll be conducting the class, as usual.

June 9/10 - I’ll be away in Melbourne for that week, so we will all take a week off. Time for you to catch up with previous classes, or just take a break.

June 16/17 - no change. I’ll be conducting the class, as usual.

June 23/24 through to July 14/15, inclusive - I will be traveling in the northern hemisphere (Europe and the US), and Stephen has agreed to take on these four classes. [Sadhu, sadhu, sadhu, Stephen :pray:]

July 21/22 & July 28/29 - I will still be in the US (Washington DC area) and can conduct the class from there.

August 4/5 - all being well, I’ll be in midair over the Pacific flying back to Australia. Either Stephen will conduct the class or you can all take another week off (TBD).

Apologies for all the disruption.

Final important note - the starting time of the class will not change. Whatever it is now for you, it’ll be the same for all dates.

With mettā,


yassaṃ parisāyaṃ …Ayaṃ vuccati, bhikkhave, uttānā parisā. is yassaṃ … ayaṃ… a correlative construction?

Yes, I would say it is, Ayya. Though it’s a little more unusual than many correlative constructions since the demonstrative pronoun (ayaṃ) that co-relates to the relative pronoun (yassaṃ) is in the following sentence, rather than the next clause of a sentence.

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Thanks so much, Stephen, for filling in! :blush:
John, wear your seat belt and be safe!

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Wikipedia (not exactly the world’s greatest authority) tells us :

In [grammar]), a correlative is a word that is paired with another word with which it functions to perform a single function but from which it is separated in the sentence

Although the fem. loc. sing. relative pronoun ‘yassam’ is completed by demonstrative ‘ayam’, it is in a separate sentence.
So I’m not sure.

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Thanks, Beth.
I know I’m now going to be nervous each time I need to get up out of my seat on the plane to go to the toilet! :astonished:


Ah, Wikipedia has spoken!

So, technically then, the example is not a correlative, but functionally it acts that way.

Thanks, Stephen

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I am feeling doubtful about how sentences were marked the earliest texts, but can’t find very much about it. Jayarava writes "The earliest Indian inscriptions use no punctuation, and it took many centuries for the use of the daṇḍa [end marker] to be standardised. "
I am seeing modern renditions related to PTS and BJT make it two sentences while those from Thailand make it one sentence for example, here, here, and here :person_shrugging:

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Yes, perhaps the whole idea of punctuation is fairly new. Ancient Greek/Roman inscriptions rarely have punctuation or spaces between words. Sometimes they are written ‘boustrophedon’, like a plow.
In my classes with Venerable Bodhi, he often would join sentences found in CST.

Probably the idea of ‘correlative construction’ is Western and recent, as applied to Pali.

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Hello John and Good Pali Friends, I wanted to let you know that I am going to drop out of class at this point. I’ve been just barely keeping up (sort of), I would miss three of the next four classes, and with some additional demands on my time coming up it seems the best call. But I am very pleased that I now understand some basics about the structure of Pali! And when I chant I notice that I know more words and a new chant comes just a bit easier. So thank you John, Stephen and All very much. I plan to continue to build vocabulary and try to get some of the common declension patterns ingrained, but probably at a plodding pace. And with luck, to join in some future Pali class, with a running start! Best regards, Matthew


Thanks for letting me know, Matthew, and I’m very sorry to see you go. But I understand - life can get in the way of Pāli study sometimes!

I do hope you continue with some Pāli at your own pace. Chanting is great!

With mettā,

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My flight today is delayed. If nothing changes, I should be able to join on time, but anicca may say otherwise. Thanks for understanding and, of course, your generosity in offering this class.


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For certain, if I were a monastic, I know which assembly I’d rather be in!

I missed the last class, and I haven’t been able to do any homework this week. I’ve just been too busy; too many days of doing stuff from morning till evening :slight_smile:

I’m hoping I’ll be able to catch up once the activity level here goes down after our big event (an ordination! [not mine]). If not, I might have to drop out. Hoping it doesn’t come to that though!


Just showing up is very positive, regardless if homework is done. Please come!



At anytime during class, if I call on anyone at any time to do the next sentence, you can say with no fear or favour “I’d like to pass,please.”