John Kelly's Pāli Class 2024 (G&K) Class 4

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Thread for discussing John Kelly’s Pāli Class (G&K) Class 4 for the class on April 7th/ 8th 2024.

Meeting ID: 829 5896 1475
Passcode: anicca

Homework preparation for this class:

  1. Study Gair and Karunatillake Lesson II: Grammar, pp. 18 - 25
  2. Study G&K Glossary II-1, pp. 15 – 17
  3. Complete Lesson II, 1st set of readings, pp.14 – 15
  4. If you didn’t complete the Lesson I Further Readings, pp.11-12, which was assigned as homework last week, please try and tackle them now. They all follow a very similar pattern to many of the Initial Readings which we went over in some detail during class today

Reminder – no class next week, March 31 / April 1

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Thank you for the class, @johnk. I’ll probably miss the next 2 classes. Ajahn Brahmali is coming to Buddhist Gem Fellowship to lead 2 sutta retreats.

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Thanks for letting me know, Way-Chuang. You can catch up using the class recordings.

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Daylight Savings change back in NZ and some states of Australia.
On the morning of Sunday April 7, the clocks move back one hour as DST ends.
As far as I know, this will affect the start time of our next class on April 8 for @hoffmann , @Dheerayupa , and @Sumana . I hope I haven’t missed anyone.
For everyone else - if DST is changing in your time zone, please make a note of the changed class start time.

There is no DST where I live in Brisbane, so class time here will always be 9am on Monday.

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If it is to be held at 9am Brisbane time, then it should be 7am on Malaysia time. But the calendar event that you included does not match up

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The time in the OP was set to Sydney timezone (which seems to have a DST), that’s why there was an error for conversion on Apr 8.

@WayChuang please refresh the topic and check if the correct time is displayed now.

@johnk it’s better to set the start and end times in your local TZ, this way the system will always compensate for the various global TZs automagically :wink:

[event start=...
timezone="Australia/Brisbane"
...
[/event]
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Thanks very much, musiko!

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It’s correct now. Thank you very much @musiko.

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Sorry for asking a question unrelated to the New Course in Reading Pali. What is the exact gender of second person pronoun? Say, if I have tvaṁ in a sentence and there is an adjective describing tvaṁ, how should the adjective be inflected? Should I treat tvaṁ as of neuter gender and thus inflect the adjective using neuter, singular, nominative case? I’m playing with Pali Primer because Lesson 2 is too steep a hurdle for me, while Pali Primer is easier to digest.

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I think it would depend on the gender of the person (or noun) “you” is referring to. So you would say “you are blond” to a man and “you are blonde” to a woman. Yes still in the singular and nominative.

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Quite correct. Thanks, Bran.

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Thank you, @bran and @johnk . What about plural pronouns like tumhe and mayaṁ where both genders may be referred?

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Then gender would be masculine. (Pāli language is patriarchal, like English). And obviously plural, instead of singular.

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Thanks again for your patience.

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BTW, Way Chuang, no need for an apology at all. As long as your question is related to learning Pāli, then that’s fine.

I’m playing with Pali Primer because Lesson 2 is too steep a hurdle for me, while Pali Primer is easier to digest.

I think this is a very good idea to supplement your learning by going through the Pāli Primer as well. I encourage other students brand new to Pāli to do this too. G&K Lesson 2 is indeed challenging and I will be going through it very slowly.

See you online in about 5 days.

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Thank you, I’ll take advantage of that :laughing:

I probably won’t attend the next 2 sessions and will have to look at the recorded videos after Ajahn Brahmali’s retreat is over.

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Punctuation question.

Punctuations mean a lot in English (in the humble opinion of a non-native speaker of English).

So, this stanza:

Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṁ,
kusalassa upasampadā;
Sacittapariyodapanaṁ,
etaṁ buddhāna sāsanaṁ.

Why didn’t the editor use a colon after the word upasampadā? If the meaning is that the Buddha taught 3 things, shouldn’t it be a comma?

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Question on cases

In the stanza above, akaraṇaṁ and upasampadā are nominative, why is sacittapariyodapanaṁ accusative?

If this is a list of the three things that the Buddha taught, shouldn’t all three be of the same case?

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With the those questions on the punctuation and cases in mind, I can’t help thinking whether it is possible that this stanza could be:

sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṁ kusalassa upasampadā;

sacittapariyodapanaṁ, etaṁ buddhāna sāsanaṁ.

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Not doing all crimes is undertaking of good deeds;

Purifying one’s mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.

I know the meaning sounds weird, but grammatically speaking, is it possible? Why or why not?

Thank you so much :pray:

:mushroom:

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Some quick answers-
Punctuation in Romanized (and probably all written) Pali has been added later by editors

The lines of verse are arranged that way to represent the meter.

‘Pariyodapana’ is neuter nominative.

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