John Kelly's Pāli Class 2024 (G&K) Class 4

Thread for discussing John Kelly’s Pāli Class (G&K) Class 4 for the class on April 7th/ 8th 2024.

Meeting ID: 829 5896 1475
Passcode: anicca

Homework preparation for this class:

  1. Study Gair and Karunatillake Lesson II: Grammar, pp. 18 - 25
  2. Study G&K Glossary II-1, pp. 15 – 17
  3. Complete Lesson II, 1st set of readings, pp.14 – 15
  4. If you didn’t complete the Lesson I Further Readings, pp.11-12, which was assigned as homework last week, please try and tackle them now. They all follow a very similar pattern to many of the Initial Readings which we went over in some detail during class today

Reminder – no class next week, March 31 / April 1


Thank you for the class, @johnk. I’ll probably miss the next 2 classes. Ajahn Brahmali is coming to Buddhist Gem Fellowship to lead 2 sutta retreats.


Thanks for letting me know, Way-Chuang. You can catch up using the class recordings.

1 Like

Daylight Savings change back in NZ and some states of Australia.
On the morning of Sunday April 7, the clocks move back one hour as DST ends.
As far as I know, this will affect the start time of our next class on April 8 for @hoffmann , @Dheerayupa , and @Sumana . I hope I haven’t missed anyone.
For everyone else - if DST is changing in your time zone, please make a note of the changed class start time.

There is no DST where I live in Brisbane, so class time here will always be 9am on Monday.


If it is to be held at 9am Brisbane time, then it should be 7am on Malaysia time. But the calendar event that you included does not match up

The time in the OP was set to Sydney timezone (which seems to have a DST), that’s why there was an error for conversion on Apr 8.

@WayChuang please refresh the topic and check if the correct time is displayed now.

@johnk it’s better to set the start and end times in your local TZ, this way the system will always compensate for the various global TZs automagically :wink:

[event start=...

Thanks very much, musiko!


It’s correct now. Thank you very much @musiko.


Sorry for asking a question unrelated to the New Course in Reading Pali. What is the exact gender of second person pronoun? Say, if I have tvaṁ in a sentence and there is an adjective describing tvaṁ, how should the adjective be inflected? Should I treat tvaṁ as of neuter gender and thus inflect the adjective using neuter, singular, nominative case? I’m playing with Pali Primer because Lesson 2 is too steep a hurdle for me, while Pali Primer is easier to digest.

I think it would depend on the gender of the person (or noun) “you” is referring to. So you would say “you are blond” to a man and “you are blonde” to a woman. Yes still in the singular and nominative.


Quite correct. Thanks, Bran.


Thank you, @bran and @johnk . What about plural pronouns like tumhe and mayaṁ where both genders may be referred?

1 Like

Then gender would be masculine. (Pāli language is patriarchal, like English). And obviously plural, instead of singular.


Thanks again for your patience.

1 Like

BTW, Way Chuang, no need for an apology at all. As long as your question is related to learning Pāli, then that’s fine.

I’m playing with Pali Primer because Lesson 2 is too steep a hurdle for me, while Pali Primer is easier to digest.

I think this is a very good idea to supplement your learning by going through the Pāli Primer as well. I encourage other students brand new to Pāli to do this too. G&K Lesson 2 is indeed challenging and I will be going through it very slowly.

See you online in about 5 days.

1 Like

Thank you, I’ll take advantage of that :laughing:

I probably won’t attend the next 2 sessions and will have to look at the recorded videos after Ajahn Brahmali’s retreat is over.

Punctuation question.

Punctuations mean a lot in English (in the humble opinion of a non-native speaker of English).

So, this stanza:

Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṁ,
kusalassa upasampadā;
etaṁ buddhāna sāsanaṁ.

Why didn’t the editor use a colon after the word upasampadā? If the meaning is that the Buddha taught 3 things, shouldn’t it be a comma?

Question on cases

In the stanza above, akaraṇaṁ and upasampadā are nominative, why is sacittapariyodapanaṁ accusative?

If this is a list of the three things that the Buddha taught, shouldn’t all three be of the same case?

With the those questions on the punctuation and cases in mind, I can’t help thinking whether it is possible that this stanza could be:

sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṁ kusalassa upasampadā;

sacittapariyodapanaṁ, etaṁ buddhāna sāsanaṁ.


Not doing all crimes is undertaking of good deeds;

Purifying one’s mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.

I know the meaning sounds weird, but grammatically speaking, is it possible? Why or why not?

Thank you so much :pray:


Some quick answers-
Punctuation in Romanized (and probably all written) Pali has been added later by editors

The lines of verse are arranged that way to represent the meter.

‘Pariyodapana’ is neuter nominative.

1 Like