I think somehow you are trying to help me? Well that’s kind so good work. Oh and my merit… Well yes I have the conviction that I have a truckload of merit, that’s because of the amount of Sangha Dana I give.
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Guys, I’m just stating my convictions. There are three kinds of conceit, better than, worse than and the same as.
I don’t think I’m better than anyone. I don’t think I’m worse than anyone and I don’t think I am the same as anyone. I live in Perth (Western Australia) I have many Ariya friends and actively seek them out.
My mind is not really bent on criticism.
To my south is Bodhinyana, to my north is Dhammasra and my temple (dhammaloka) is a half hour walk from home. I also happen to have the world’s best master. I have a very firm, almost unshakable conviction that I am an empty process and that the exercise of free will is a delusion. We can only prevent ourselves from acting, science has proven this.
Read ajahn brahmali’s post above, it’s in the Suttas apparently.
Hi folks,
Yet one more friendly reminder that this forum is governed by these guidelines (which, in addition to promoting friendly, respectful exchange, notes that the focus of any criticism should be on the ideas not the person).
If at any one point it is too difficult to draft a post that abides by them, please just don’t post.
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Understood 
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Ah, excellent sutta. So in this, the Buddha seems to be suggesting a sort of visualization (or guided meditation) on the person’s death bed? It might make sense to develop this sense of urgency for Nibbana before one’s death bed I would assume. All this mention of different deva worlds suggest to me that these people weren’t clear about their path (or maybe had attachments, unbeknown to them).
Thank you for this 
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Thanks Mat it’s been a really long time since I read it and I hope it’s possible, but I think we all need our jhanas and teachings from enlightened beings (and or the Suttas). there are some really nice monks in England: I like ajahn Amaro, I hope you visit your monasteries.
-peace
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Enjoy folks!
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If a lay disciple has nurtured
-faith (saddha), virtue (sila), learning of the dhamma (suta), giving (caga) SN 55.22 and AN 6.16 say they are more likely to attain Nibbana, or at least have a heavenly rebirth. There’s another sutta (to Mahanama?) which says that if a person lived a corrupt life no amount of wishing can get them anywhere, so the wholesome qualities must act concurrently with the wish, or determination, so this idea seems mentioned several times- with the only caveat that it is not quite kosher timeless (‘akalika’), but nevertheless might be quite a useful path to those striving with much effort and be a great relief and reward, if their efforts aren’t rewarded in a timeless manner. The Buddha is said to proclaim the dhamma which is beneficial to the masses not just a select group who can develop superhuman qualities.
With metta
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I believe that lay people, if they don’t attain Nirvana in this lifetime, can enter Nirvana at the moment of death. This is at least what is commonly taught in Japanese Buddhism.
The popular conception of the Pure Land as a Buddhist heaven, where we’ll someday meet our deceased relatives, has perhaps more to do with Chinese ancestor worship, with its emphasis on filial piety, than with Buddhism itself.
Shinran, like Tan-luan and Shandao, understood the Pure Land as the formless realm of Nirvana, rather than a heaven, and therefore referred to it as “the birth of no-birth,” just as the Buddha described Nirvana as “the unborn.”
Buddhism was not immediately accepted in China, because the doctrines of non-self, rebirth, and Nirvana challenged traditional Chinese beliefs about the spirits of dead relatives, that good deeds should be done in their honor.
If there is no permanent, unchanging self, but instead a stream of consciousness from one lifetime to the next, what good is there in dedicating merit to one’s ancestors? The answer to this question might be unsettling for many.
Chinese folk religion therefore came to produce an image of the Pure Land as a Confucian-like and Taoist-like paradise, as an accommodation of Buddhism to traditional Chinese values and customs.
Shinran said that he never recited the Nembutsu out of filial piety. Nonetheless, Shinran had compassionate understanding for those who, however misguided, clung to the notion of a permanent self that will meet our deceased ancestors.
As the realm of Nirvana, the true Pure Land is inconceivable. The heaven-like language we use to describe it is a finger pointing to the moon, making the Ultimate Truth accessible to ordinary beings like ourselves:
Meaning itself is beyond debate of such matters as like against dislike, evil against virtue, falsity against truth. Hence, words may indeed have meaning, but the meaning is not the words. Consider, for example, a person instructing us by pointing to the moon with his finger. The person would say, ‘I am pointing to the moon with my finger in order to show it to you. Why do you look at my finger and not the moon?’ Similarly, words are the finger pointing to the meaning; they are not the meaning itself. Hence, do not rely upon words.
Chapter on Transformed Buddha-Bodies and Lands - The Collected Works of Shinran
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TY for posting this link, i find the talk helpful and inspiring the whole way through. Loving not liking but embracing the whole of life… yes.
But what do you actually know?
Me too, my current source of inspiration being Ajhan Thanissaro, a prolific writer.
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What then is to be made of MIL6.4.2, The Voluntary Extra Vows, eg
I enquire from a state of great ignorance: I gather that the Milindapañha is a latish text, I assume that Nagasena‘s words carry less authority than those of the earlier disciples, I think that - as an early scholar - Rhys Davids’ translations were sometimes wide of the mark, and I lack understanding of the relationships among the EBTs. However, I stumbled upon this sutta in SC and it seemed relevant to the discussion early in this thread.
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I don’t see it.
Some things just require a lot of time put in and time put in during their your best hours.
I can’t see one of us average wage slaves making that happen.
I have a friend who eventually became a nun.
Years before she gave up on lay life to become nun, she tried to squeeze in as much dhamma into her lay life as she could.
She was single. She didn’t date. She lived close to her job. At one point she even learned to live without dinner to make sure she got at least a few hours of sitting in when she got home.
She got no benefit by doing this. She wasn’t getting the benefits of lay life, she was just running around to get what she could have gotten at a monastery.
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Being a lay practitioner is difficult, but nevertheless some may pursue it for a period of time due to unfinished commitments (children, elderly parents etc). However if we strongly wish for it and pursue Nibbana, there is a possibility of it, even at the point of death. However it is hardly the best way, of course.
with metta
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It allows that householders may attain arahatta but says nothing about what would then become of them. The latter question is addressed in Dialogue 6.2.2:
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I doubt this literary work is in accordance with the Buddha’s teachings. This ‘monk’, believes in the caste divisions?
Or just, O king, as a poor weak fellow of low birth and little ability, if he came into possession of a great and mighty kingdom, would be unable to support the dignity of it —just so if a layman attains to Arahatship, then is he unable, in that condition, to support it. And that is the reason why he must, on that very day, either enter the Order or die away.’ - Or just, O king, as a poor weak fellow of low birth and little ability, if he came into possession of a great and mighty kingdom, would be unable to support the dignity of it —just so if a layman attains to Arahatship, then is he unable, in that condition, to support it. And that is the reason why he must, on that very day, either enter the Order or die away.’ - Khīṇāsavabhāvapañha
With metta
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A believer in caste would hold that low birth by itself renders one unfit for holding high office. In the quoted passage, however, it is low birth coupled with being weak (abala), feeble (dubbala) and of limited merit (parittapuñña).
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