Line by line bhikkhuni Patimokkha?

[Gabriel_L]

@carmi

Will do

Thank you!

Is it possible to have the Bhikkhu Vibhanga also there?

[Brahmali]

Thanks, @Carmi! I am not sure why there should be a new folder named root/pli/vri/vinaya. Is this because MS has no independent Pātimokkha text? Even if this is so, I am not sure it is ideal to call the new folder VRI, indicating, as it does, that the Pali is taken from anther source, which would not be correct. It is more a derivative text form MS. I would therefore label it differently, perhaps as ms-derivative or something like that. That would be closer to what is actually going on.

As for the translation path, would it make sense to set up a separate path for @Pasanna? I mean, it would really be a kind of hybrid, with Ven. Pasannā’s editing of my translation. What do you think Venerable? I am happy either way.

[carmi]

@Brahmali

Thanks, @Carmi! I am not sure why there should be a new folder named root/pli/vri/vinaya. Is this because MS has no independent Pātimokkha text? Even if this is so, I am not sure it is ideal to call the new folder VRI, indicating, as it does, that the Pali is taken from anther source, which would not be correct. It is more a derivative text form MS. I would therefore label it differently, perhaps as ms-derivative or something like that. That would be closer to what is actually going on.

Greetings Ajahn @Brahmali I’m not sure how Bilara has been coded (whether you’ll see two vinaya in your project since the roots differ, or whether the files will aggregate under one). Regarding the two root locations though, Bhante @sujato can you please confirm if you’d like to keep them separate before I set up the projects?

@Brahmali

As for the translation path, would it make sense to set up a separate path for @Pasanna? I mean, it would really be a kind of hybrid, with Ven. Pasannā’s editing of my translation. What do you think Venerable? I am happy either way.

The translation path I listed is for your project only Ajahn. Ayya will have a separate translation project and path.

[sujato]

@carmi

Should the translation path be the same? translation/en/brahmali/vinaya

Yes, then different texts under there.

@Brahmali

I am not sure it is ideal to call the new folder VRI, indicating, as it does, that the Pali is taken from anther source, which would not be correct.

The Pali is taken from the VRI, the labeling is correct. We can’t derive patimokkhas from MS, since, as you pointed out above, not all the text is in the canon. VRI has the independent texts of the patimokkhas here.

Bhikkhu:

https://tipitaka.org/romn/cscd/vin04t.nrf0.xml

Bhikkhuni:

https://tipitaka.org/romn/cscd/vin04t.nrf1.xml

@Brahmali

As for the translation path, would it make sense to set up a separate path for @Pasanna? I mean, it would really be a kind of hybrid, with Ven. Pasannā’s editing of my translation. What do you think Venerable?

As I said above, we need to set up two paths. Pasanna’s will be for getting the thing done initially, then we will copy the files to your name for your final editing, and it will be published from there. Pasanna’s role should be acknowledged in the metadata.

@carmi

Regarding the two root locations though, Bhante @sujato can you please confirm if you’d like to keep them separate before I set up the projects?

yes, keep them separate.

[carmi]

Thanks Bhante @sujato, the files are ready in Bilara for you, Ven. @Pasanna, Ajahn @brahmali, Ayya @sabbamitta, and @Gabriel_L.

[sabbamitta]

Thanks everybody for supporting this, and Ayya @Pasanna for taking the initiative. I have been wishing to have at least the two patimokkhas in German for a long while already.

[Pasanna]

I’ve done my first pass through for both the bhikkhu and bhikkhuni patimokkhas.

Some inconsistencies between segment length were found as follows at:
Bi-NP-24
Bi-PC-115
Bi-Pc-119

In Kd2 the patimokkha is refererd to as ‘Monastic code’

pātimokkhaṁ uddisissāmi,
I will recite the Monastic Code

In the title cards and at the end of the adhikaranasamatha, the patimokkha is referred to as ‘the Monks’/Nun Rules’

Bhikkhupātimokkhaṁ niṭṭhitaṁ.
The Monks’ Rules are finished.

@Brahmali In many places in the vibhanga there is variation when there is something like ‘so and so should say’ sometime there is a coma and sometimes there is a semi-colan eg.

I will go through and proof this sometime later in the week. Then it’s over to yous

[Brahmali]

@Pasanna

In the title cards and at the end of the adhikaranasamatha, the patimokkha is referred to as ‘the Monks’/Nun Rules’

Well, this is not actually a rendering of the word Pātimokkha. The word in question is Mahāvibhaṅga. I think we should render it simply as “Great Analysis”, which is essentially what it means. I will change it accordingly. Bhikkhunivibhaṅga then becomes “the nuns’ analysis”. Thanks for pointing it out.

@Pasanna

@Brahmali In many places in the vibhanga there is variation when there is something like ‘so and so should say’ sometime there is a coma and sometimes there is a semi-colan

There is a kind of system to this. I use colon with formal settings, such as Sanghakamma. When the direct speech naturally flows on in the sentence, however, I tend to use commas. This is especially so after the word “saying”, which sort of indicates a continuation.

[sujato]

We can make sure that the Pali and HTML is 100%, so let’s list any issues here and I’ll deal with them soon.

@Brahmali

There is a kind of system to this. I use colon with formal settings, such as Sanghakamma. When the direct speech naturally flows on in the sentence, however, I tend to use commas.

I do the same!

[Pasanna]

Some more things I have noticed in the Pāli

There are English words sneaking into the headings in the Pāḷī
Preliminaries (in the preliminaries) and Conclusion
Chapter xxx in the NPs and Pc

Bi Pc 138, the final segment 207.3 shouldn’t be there.

There is variation between the rule names in Pali both between the Bi Patimokkha and Bi Vibhanga and then between the Bi and Bu Patimokkha. Both of these situations make it tricky for someone wanting to find the vibhanga for the Bi rule.
The largest discrepencies I noticed were around the rules on ordination in the Bi Pcs
I really hope this can be somewhat standardised.

[sujato]

Ok don’t make any edits for now, I am adjusting the segments.

[sujato]

I’m still looking for a place that lists the segment issues that I need to address. Is there such a thing? It would be super helpful!

[sujato]

There’s a bunch of content missing in the bu-pm at the start?

[Brahmali]

@sujato

Ayya, you can input this under your name, then when it’s all ready, we can copy the files over to Brahmali’s project so he can publish under his name.

So, are we ready to copy it over? I would be happy to add the things at the start of the bu-pm, even though it is strictly not part of the Pātimokkha.

[sujato]

@Brahmali

I would be happy to add the things at the start of the bu-pm, even though it is strictly not part of the Pātimokkha.

Actually I’ve added that. I think the translation should basically be whatever is in the Pali file. The preliminaries aren’t strictly canonical, but the fact that they agree with the description in the Parivara suggests they’ve been around for a while.

Yes, we can copy it over to your account … In fact I just did so … And I can see them in Bilara already.

Check it out to make sure you can edit them. If not, we need Carmi to add them to the publications metadata.

[Brahmali]

@sujato

In fact I just did so

Thanks!

@sujato

Check it out to make sure you can edit them.

Can! So all’s good.

[sujato]

Great well let me know if there are any further issues with segments and the like.