How come there isn’t one on SC?
Is there one in the works?
(I don’t want to do it…but I might if there isn’t one)
How come there isn’t one on SC?
I believe the reason given was that they just follow the Burmese root text, and most of the Bhikkhuni rules are elided there, so…
Perhaps this link will answer your need?
Thanks, but the version used on sc isn’t elided.
As a bhikkhuni I have a print copy of the side by side version you linked. It doesn’t line up super well on a sentence by sentence basis though. It’s just per rule.
By “line-by-line” I assume you’re referring to Ajahn @Brahmali’s Vinaya translation done on Bilara?
In that case, it really does appear to be missing many of the Bhikkhuni’s rules since he doesn’t seem to have made a Patimokkha translation per se, and only translated the Vibhaṅga. But perhaps that’s in the works and just hasn’t made it over to the site yet?
I really to think we should have the complete line-by-line bhikkhunī Pātimokkha on SC. It is a fairly straightforward process, @Pasanna. All that is required is changing the gender from masculine to feminine: yo pana bhikkhu … > yā pana bhikkhunī … etc. If you are happy to do the translation @Pasanna, we just need the cooperation of Bhante @Sujato to set up bilara and then implement it on SC.
Ajahn, I was just going to take the existing English version in the 5th edition bhikkhuni Patimokkha book, linked above, and line-by-line it as best I could. I have no idea about how to format for bilara though.
You know, I was sort of hoping you would use my translation! Personally I think that would be nice for consistency’s sake. The existing version can then be an alternative, but without the line-by-line formatting.
To see the line-by-line format on SuttaCentral, you (or someone) will need to enter it though bilara. It’s pretty straightforward, but Bhante Sujato, or perhaps Blake, will have to set it up for you.
I’m happy to use your Bhikkhuni Pāṭimokkha translation. Where is it?
Yay!!! I am really pleased to hear that!
It will have to be extracted from the Vibhaṅga, which, of course, is available on SC.
Actually, as I am checking what is there on SC, I see that the Bhikkhu-pātimokkha is also missing. Would you feel like doing both, perhaps?
Bhante @Sujato, may we have you input please?
I’ll see how I go with the bhikkhuni one, but maybe. I’m just doing this to help memorise Patimokkha
I just need some direction on how to format the text.
Hey y’all, yes it is definitely a desideratum. Happy to support such a project.
TBQH, I wanted to do this earlier, but I got caught up in making my own translation of the two patimokkhas. I was reading Brahmali’s, and I had this idea about how the syntax could be construed differently. Nothing dramatic, just an experiment in handling the translation. I got a ways in and then, well, life happened. Here’s a sample:
Suppose a monk deliberately kills a human being or seeks an instrument of death for them. Or perhaps he praises death or encourages someone to die, saying, “Good man, what’s the point of this wretched and difficult life? You’re better off dead than alive!” With such thoughts and intentions in mind, he praises death or encourages someone to die. Such a monk is also expelled and excluded from the community.
Anyhoo, that’s why I never went ahead. I still plan to tho!
The two patimokkhas are already included in Bilara-data, so it’s just a matter of setting the project up.
@carmi would you be able to do this? Set up a translation of the two patimokkhas?
You’ll find them in root/pli/vri/vinaya
If you could set them up for me, and also Brahmali.
Probably best to also set up a project from Ayya Pasanna. Ayya, you can input this under your name, then when it’s all ready, we can copy the files over to Brahmali’s project so he can publish under his name.
I’m keen to have it active/available for Portuguese as well.
And certainly German!
This is my first adventure into bilara. Documentation?
I’ve started with putting it all in columns in a spreadsheet. One of the things I noticed is that translations are still needed for the preliminaries and introduction.
The other thing I’ve noticed is that the segmenting seems quite random. Some rules which are long are all one segment, while others seem to break at – marks or commas. However, this isn’t consistent. The bhikkhuni rules of the same length as the bhikkhu ones seem less segmented. My main interest is having this a line-by-line but it seems, in places, only as useful as side-by-side.
Apologies for the double post but I just poked my head in the HTML and see that everything that is needed to make this happen is already tagged in the class .patimokkha
Surely this means someone smarter than me can just suck it all out and generate a full bhikkhu patimokkha and a partial bhikkhuni patimokkha from it? @Khemarato.bhikkhu ?
Then I just need to duplicate the bhikkhu rules that are shared with the bhikkhunis and adjust the gender.
@Snowbird - Are you interested in giving the above a try?
@carmi will help you out, just give her a little time, she has a job also!
If you can note such segmenting issues, we can adjust them. Ideally the two patimokkhas and two vibhangas will all be consistent.
Yes, it should be possible, a simple regex or two will do it. Easiest will be to start with the full Vinaya HTML file, which is conveniently located right here.
The introduction is found in Kd.2, here, whereas the preliminaries are not EBTs. In fact, they are probably very late, and differ considerably even between the different Nikāyas of Theravada Buddhism. To see this, have a look at Nyanatusita’s Translation and Analysis of the Pātimokkha. Even the preliminaries, however, are rooted in the Uposathakhandhaka. They are basically just a grouping together of material found a bit scattered in Kd.2. You will find a translation of them in Ñāṇamoli’s Pātimokkha translation.
Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance.
I’ve made a plain-text version of both patimokkhas, extracted from brahmali’s text, ready to be added to bilara.
patimokkha.zip (15.2 KB)
Sure thing Bhante, I’ll get this set up in the next few days For Ajahn Brahmali, I think Bilara will display two vinaya folders (i.e.
root/pli/vri/vinaya alongside existing
root/pli/ms/vinaya). Should the translation path be the same?
Wil do Ayya
Hello Ayya @Pasanna documentation is here Guide for translators · suttacentral/bilara-data Wiki · GitHub. Can you please send me your github username?