roar like a lion
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Translate them nicely but provide a subheading over the top: [REDUNDANT]. Or: Curious fossils from an era when people did not know-better. Perhaps, ‘handle with caution’ will suffice? Be diplomatic if you must but get the job done and dusted! We need to walk the talk - we are anti-patriarchy - plain and simple. 
Oh lol… 
Fair point and if Bhante Sujato prefers to go solitude hunting for the rest of his monastic life, how could anyone not rejoice in that…I know I would! 
But perhaps if he comes for a visit (we would love that!) we could organise a book signing (like Ajahn Brahm has done )…just to help publicise it and get the word out there…? (Sorry for discussing this without you in the room so to speak @sujato! It’s just an idea. ) I doubt most folk know about it even. Then, if it’s more obvious to the nuns that most folk are aware of it and also, if more people start conversations with the nuns about this…well…who knows what may happen… But I just think it is vital for more awareness around this…regardless of whether various Bhikkhuni communities choose to keep these rules or not.
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Just wanted to clarify - in case this is confusing to people - that this has nothing to do with the garudhammas. Communities can follow the garudhammas and still take dana in order of seniority.
The first garudhamma is about bowing to monks, not about the order of food lines.
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For all those who want some background on bhikkhuni ordination, I recommend this video.
Maybe it’s time for a follow up 
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Oh. wait. I got confused again.
Will the Bhikkhuni’s outside Ajhan Braham (lineage) take Graudhamma as an ordination vows?
It’s not an ordination vow.
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Why was Ajahn Braham excommunicated?
For moral coherence!
"“Like the villagers in the story of the emperor’s new clothes, members of the inner circle were unwilling to reveal their ignorance by challenging … As a result, they suppressed whatever doubts they had an worked even harder to make sense of what, in the final analysis, may have been nonsensical.” - Zellner, William W. & Petrowsky, Marc
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See, this is the type of thing we (and I mean most monastics in the world too…not just us laity) are ignorant of.
I find myself asking, what more can those of you that have the full picture do to get the word out there?
To me monks like Bhante Sujato have got the ball rolling. But perhaps it’s now time for “phase 2” (or 3 or 4 or whatever!) In terms of the community I belong to…what I would like to see happen is this:
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To hear that Bhikkhuni Vinaya Studies and other such texts have sold out in the library and they need to order more in!
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To overhear lay people have conversations about this while they sit and have a cup of coffee together.
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For nuns and monks not to feel shy/frightened about having such conversations openly with anyone.
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For people not necessarily to come to agreement…but to be open to new information and to respectfully dialogue.
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You can read about it on Bhante Sujato’s blog
@anon29387788 can we add the monks to 3 as well? I get the impression it’s hard for them too.
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I would prefer to see more than endless talk - or book sales! I would like to see an action-plan spelled-out or, is that ‘pie in the sky’? We don’t need to bang-on about it endlessly? Simply, find-out what BSWA members - full and part-time - including monastics, as well as, the other groups that are part of the ‘Ajahn Brahm’ tradition want to see happen?
The other sanghas/assemblies in Australia, Sth-East Asian fellowships etc. should have an opportunity to express an opinion about (blatantly) patriarchal practices that the ‘vast majority’ want to see ‘done away with’ - erased permanently - made a thing of the past. Maybe they don’t - do you?
We can move ‘together’ to realise our collective goal as an international community. We have committees etc. to manage things and implement the guidelines that must already exist - in written form? Does the BSWA have a ‘constitution’- or such-like?
Just like ‘we’ had an mail-out survey for gay-marriage the same kind of thing could be organised with minimal fuss and bother. If it turns out - and it most surely will - that the four-fold assembly in the ‘Ajahn Brahm tradition’ want to finish with all vestiges of discrimination against females we can make this happen. It’s only complacency and indifference that obstructs progress with regard to this central concern of the entire community?
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done
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The trouble is, I don’t think we will be on the same page when we fill in such surveys because we don’t all have the full picture.
Some will think they are doing right but will only have half the picture. There answers to such surveys might be wildly different if they have all the information.
This is why I think we have to go gently, kindly, perhaps even slowly. Conversations and openness and a sense of safety are key to promoting any lasting and beautifully useful changes.
But I do sympathise with where you’re coming from
EDIT
Change that comes from a groundswell of broad, well-informed, metta-based grassroots support is going to be the best kind. Top-down change never really reaches people’s hearts in a lasting way.
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We could still be talking about this in 50 years time - what is difficult to understand? The gay-marriage survey asked a simple question: yes or no - with regard to gay-marriage. Did everyone know everything about the issue - probably not - but it was a stark and simple choice. 1) keep discriminating against the rights of LGBTQI people to get married or, not? We got the answer from the wider community and its flow-on effects.
I think this possibility should be explored at a committee level. I cannot see the harm in trying? It could all start with a submission from a group of concerned members and the ball would start rolling? Is anyone prepared to put-up-their-hand and be the one who gets the mega-merit? I am not a current member so I am not in a position to make an important difference - something we would all appreciate.
The problem may have something to do with an organisational issue. I have been told by ‘Ajahn Brahm’ that the BSWA is ‘disorganised’ religion in contrast to the organised variety. Thats OK for things that don’t matter much - is ending discrimination against women something that does not matter much or, does it matter a lot? I thought that this is what made us an outstanding and progressive Buddhist community?
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If the question is ‘should the garudhammas be kept?’ most people will be garu-what?
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I am a laywoman. I do not like the 8 Gar rules not just because they are inconsistent with Buddha’s design, but because they are a yoke on monks; how can they release clinging and aversion to gender if reminded all the time? But because it was not requested before His passing, despite His hints, the Buddha allows the monks to carry that on until wisdom comes, that they wrre not anything but training rules for His stepmother.
The last being to escape Hell, may be a Theraveda monk, clinging to gender .
May all beings achieve liberation. If my words are inappropriate, forgive me please and don’t be troubled.
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Well, I guess thats not the right question to ask then? Can you think of another question - or questions - that people might be able to understand clearly - that deals with the issue? It might take a bit of careful reflection but I am sure that someone here can come up with something that would make the change happen?
An explanatory note could be put at the beginning of the ‘survey’ that lists the ‘Eight Garudhammas’ as the training guidelines that we are seeking to keep or ‘jettison’ (consign to history). Answering: ‘YES’ would mean they are retained and, answering: ‘NO’ would mean they will not be retained.
Here are a couple of questions that deal with the fundamental issue:
- Should we assist Bhikkunis to practice as completely equal members of the monastic community?
Please circle your choice: YES or NO
- In order to facilitate this, should we remove all forms of discriminatory rules from the Bhikkhuni code of behaviour?
Please circle your choice: YES or NO
Thank you for your participation!
We all have the same view that these ‘garudhammas’ are something that serves no useful purpose in terms of the U.N. millennium goals - we are committed to - so why not give them the kind of careful attention they deserve and get rid of them - once and for all?
“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” - Margaret Mead
Where do you think groundswells come from? Somehow - somewhere - something - breaks the surface. It starts as a trickle and gains momentum. It’s usually when a small group of concerned citizens get together and start the ball-rolling. It does not happen by sitting around and talking about it and, not taking the steps to bring about meaningful change. We all know this kind of meaningful change will be a walk in the park! We all know its what we want to see happen? It is actually what we all want but nobody seems willing to make it happen - how bizarre? There seems to be something - systemic - about Buddhism that creates inertia. I would have thought that after all the good-work of ‘Sakyadhita.org’ that this would be a logical step that benefits Buddhist women? I wonder what ‘Ayya Khema’ would have had to say: sit on your hands?