MN17 Vanapattha Sutta Study Notes

MN 17: Vanapattha Sutta (Forest Wilderness Discourse) Notes

(Note: Please give advice on translation 3 in the translations inline as I've only gotten corrections on some the work and I am a beginning Pāli student. Thanks.)

Introduction

The Vanapattha Sutta is about discernment. This and the Sevitabbāsevitabba Sutta in the Middle Length discourses make a good package to describe how the Buddha recommends we make choices in life. The Sevitabbāsevitabba Sutta is about the internal conditions conducive to awakening and what should be cultivated. The Vanapatta Sutta focuses on the external conditions, which is what we will look at here. This is a simple, but powerful sutta, on setting one’s priorities.

This discourse was named by the Buddha at the time of its teaching.

“vana­pattha­pariyā­yaṃ vo, bhikkhave, desessāmi,
1. “Bhikkhus, I shall teach you a discourse on jungle thickets.1
2. “Bhikkhus, I will teach the method of the forest.2
3. “Bhikkhus, I shall instruct you on the forest wilderness.3

If you have heard even a little bit of the suttas chanted in Pali, you have likely heard the following chanted:

Evaṃ me sutaṃ—​ ekaṃ samayaṃ bhagavā sāvatthiyaṃ viharati jetavane anātha­piṇḍi­kassa ārāme.

This may be translated as: Thus have I heard. On one occasion the Blessed One was staying at Sāvatthī, in the Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s Park.

The vane in jetavane is the same word as vana in the title of the sutta. The names for monastery in the early days were either vana or arama, which is a forest or park. Often we now see the terms āvasa and vihara for monastery which just mean where one lives or dwells. But with the terms vana and arama, we know the early monasteries were in forests and parks.

Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu aññataraṃ vanapatthaṃ upanissāya viharati.
1. Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu lives in some jungle thicket.
2. Here, bhikkhus, the bhikkhu abides in a certain forest stretch
3. Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu abides, depending on a certain forest wilderness.

The forest in this sutta is not just where the bhikkhu lives. By looking at the Pali, we see there is a dependence relationship with the forest. The word upanissāya means depending or reliance. We can say that the bhikkhu is depending on the environment in which he lives.

Ajahn Sujato notes that there are two Chinese parallels that are nearly identical with the version in the Pali Middle Length Discourses with only one or two significant differences, to be noted later, and a version in the Numerical Discourses4 and its Chinese parallel that only has part of the sutta. In the Numerical Discourses, the detail of four cases to be examined when questioning if one should stay in association, is only gone into for when associating with a person. The sections on villages or towns, and countries or regions are only questioned at the high level of questioning if they are supportive to increase one’s wholesome qualities and decrease one’s wholesome qualities.

As noted before, this sutta is about the external conditions supportive to the holy life. It might be simply put as the “Should I stay, or should I go” sutta. The external conditions to consider include checking if it is supportive of establishing mindfulness, to stilling the mind, to exhausting the taints, and to reaching the end of suffering, as well as, having robes, almsfood, a resting place, and medicinal requisites.

These conditions can be grouped into two parts - progress on the path and ease of obtaining requisites. The sutta then goes into the four permutations of having and not having these two conditions. It states how the bhikkhu should reflect on the situation and concludes what the bhikkhu should do about the situation - i.e. leave or stay and in what manner should he leave or stay.

The conditions of the forest wilderness

Case 1: no progress on path, difficult to obtain requisites

> Tassa taṃ vanapatthaṃ upanissāya viharato anupaṭṭhitā ceva sati na upaṭṭhāti, > 1. While he is living there his unestablished mindfulness does not become established, > 2. When abiding there, unestablished mindfulness does not get established, > 3. If, when abiding supported on the forest wilderness, unestablished mindfulness is not looked after,

This is referring to the four foundations of mindfulness. The question is: In this environment can I practice and make progress in mindfulness of the body, of feeling, of mental states, and of Dhammas?

In regards to mindfulness of the body, this might mean such environmental conditions where one would see a decaying body or it might be the general conditions where one is supported in awareness of the postures and actions of the body and where contemplation of things, such as the parts of the body or the decaying process are supported. A supportive environment is likely one that holds such practices as a priority and a normal mode of being, so one might ask: Is this environment one where mindfulness practices are supported throughout the day?

With mindfulness of feeling, any environment in the world will have conditions supportive to things that are, upon contact, pleasant, unpleasant or neutral. So it is not the condition of pleasant that is to be considered. The question is: Can I be mindful of the condition of pleasant? Are these pleasant feelings those of the worldly pleasures, tied into the rounds of rebirth, or are these pleasant feeling those of the spiritual life that one might experience in meditation or in liberation? The same can be asked of the other kinds of feeling.

Progress in mindfulness of the mental states, would mean an increased and more detailed awareness of the states of the mind. The question might be: Is this environment conducive to seeing the arising and passing of a mental state, such as anger or happiness, and seeing the characteristics of the mind with the mental state as it arises, persists, fades and vanishes? One needs to be in an environment where all mental states can be seen. This doesn’t mean one fosters unwholesome states, but one does examine them. It also should be possible to notice when the mental states are not present.

With mindfulness of Dhammas, this is not just the study of Dhamma materials such as the suttas, but the deep practice of seeing clearly. Is one making progress with seeing the hindrances when present, when not present, and in seeing what causes them to arise and cease? Is one seeing the aggregates as they are affected by clinging? Similar questions can be asked about progress with seeing clearly the rest of the Dhammas.

In Cases 1 and 2, of this discourse, these questions would be answered in the negative, as mindfulness is not improving.

asamāhitañca cittaṃ na samādhiyati,
1. his unconcentrated mind does not become concentrated,
2. unconcentrated mind does not concentrate,
3. uncollected mind is not composed,

Next, the sutta points to questions about one’s samatha meditation practice. One might ask, Is this an environment where I can practice and make progress in meditation? Do the hindrances become quiet? Is the mind becoming still?

Again, in Cases 1 and 2, of this discourse, these questions would be answered in the negative, as a quietude of heart is not developing.

aparikkhīṇā ca āsavā na parikkhayaṃ gacchanti,
1. his undestroyed taints do not come to destruction,
2. not destroyed desires do not get destroyed,
3. non-exhausted taints are not exhausted,

We practice to reach the ending of the four taints of attachment to sensual pleasures, to becoming, to views, and to ignorance. One practices for the abandonment of the taints by seeing clearly, practicing restraint, using wisely, enduring, avoiding, removing, and developing based on the type of taint with which one is practicing. Examples include, the monastic requisites should be used wisely, mosquitos should be endured without vexation, wild dogs should be avoided, and thoughts of cruelty should be removed. The question to ask is: In this environment, am I gaining in capabilities to abandon these taints and the underlying four taints that keep me in the round of birth?

Here again, in Cases 1 and 2, these questions would be answered in the negative, as the taints are not losing their hold.

ananuppattañca anuttaraṃ yogakkhemaṃ nānupāpuṇāti.
1. he does not attain the unattained supreme security from bondage;
2. and the not attained noble end of the yoke is not attained;
3. not having reached the ultimate rest from exertion, he does not reach it.
4. he does not attain the supreme rest from exertion. - Ajahn Brahmali

The supreme rest from exertion, which is nibbāna, is the goal of practice. Ajahn Brahmali is concerned about the translations being in a form that means one has reached full attainment. He indicates that this sutta is asking if one is making progress, not if one is a complete in their progress.

Ye ca kho ime pabbajitena jīvita­parik­khārā samudānetabbā —cīvara­piṇḍa­pāta­se­nāsa­na­gilā­nappac­caya­bhesaj­ja­parik­khārā—te kasirena samudā­gacchanti.
1. and also the requisites of life that should be obtained by one gone forth — robes, almsfood, resting place, and medicinal requisites — are hard to come by.
2. as for the four requisites of life for the one gone forth, robes, morsel food, dwellings, and requisites when ill, are collected with difficulty.>
3. indeed, also, this one’s requisites of monastic life that should be obtained — robes, almsfood, resting place, and medicinal requisites when ill — are trouble to get.

What does it mean for the requisites to be difficult to get? It means a great level of hardship. The Buddha didn’t set the level of requisite care very high.

For robes, one doesn’t require new cloth or fully made robes as we see at our katina and going forth ceremonies. The level of care is set at having access to discarded fabric or the windings from a corpse and the means to sew and dye them.

For almsfood, one doesn’t require carefully crafted, hearty foods delivered to the monastery. The level of care is set at having enough put in the alms bowl when one walks in inhabited areas to continue to live.

For a resting place, one doesn’t require a shiny monastery with heat and sleeping mats. The level of care is set at having the root of a tree or a stack of straw for a place of rest.

For medicines, one doesn’t require a medical plan that gives access to high tech pharmacies and various modalities of treatment. The level of care is set at having access to fermented urine.

Here is a pretty low standard, that if one is not getting at least this much in requisites, it would indeed be hard to live, much less practice.

Reflection: restates conditions

Tena, bhikkhave, bhikkhunā iti paṭi­sañ­cik­khi­tab­baṃ: … (just restates the conditions above)
1. The bhikkhu should consider thus: …
2. That bhikkhu should reflect, …
3. Thus bhikkhus, by the monk should be this reflection: …

Conclusion: leave quickly

Tena, bhikkhave, bhikkhunā rattibhāgaṃ vā divasabhāgaṃ vā tamhā vanapatthā pakkamitabbaṃ, na vatthabbaṃ.
1. That bhikkhu should depart from that jungle thicket that very night or that very day; he should not continue living there.
2. Bhikkhus, he should not abide in that stretch of forest, he should leave it by night or by day.
3. Thus bhikkhus, by the monk, night or day, he should go away from the forest wilderness, he should not continue to fare there.

There is a reflection for those who have gone forth that asks, “The days and nights are relentlessly passing. How well am I spending my time?” Here the Buddha says not to waste those days and nights and to leave for conditions that are more supportive.

Case 2: no progress on path, easy to obtain requisites

Reflection: restates conditions and notes that he didn’t go forth in order to get requisites. > Na kho panāhaṃ cīvarahetu agārasmā anagāriyaṃ pabbajito na piṇḍapātahetu … pe … na senāsanahetu … pe … na gilā­nappac­caya­bhesaj­ja­parik­khā­ra­hetu agārasmā anagāriyaṃ pabbajito. > 1. However, I did not go forth from the home life into homelessness for the sake of robes, almsfood, resting place, and medicinal requisites. > 2. I did not go forth as a homeless for the sake of robes, morsel food, dwellings, and requisites when ill > 3. Certainly, not for robes did I go forth from home to homelessness,... not for alms food,... not for resting place,... not for medicinal requisites when ill did I go forth from home to homelessness.

Certainly a higher standard than the shroud of a corpse, morsels of food from alms round, a stack of hay, and fermented urine may extend one’s life and may bring a level of comfort that in some ways may be the support needed for practice. However, if one is able to obtain enough for practice to progress, that is enough. If one receives more than is required for life and is still not making progress, then one has to know the holy life is not about food and clothing and stay true to the priority of practicing for liberation.

Conclusion: leave

Tena, bhikkhave, bhikkhunā saṅkhāpi tamhā vanapatthā pakkamitabbaṃ, na vatthabbaṃ.
1. Having reflected thus, that bhikkhu should depart from that jungle thicket; he should not continue living there.
2. Bhikkhus, that bhikkhu considering should leave that stretch of forest, should not abide there.
3. Thus bhikkhus, by that monk’s reckoning, he should go away from the forest wilderness, he should not continue to fare there.

The days and nights are still relentlessly passing, but one may get a few more days for practice since one is leaving well fed.

Case 3: progress on path, difficult to obtain requisites

Reflection: restates conditions and notes that he didn’t go forth for requisites and progress is being made. > Atha ca pana me imaṃ vanapatthaṃ upanissāya viharato anupaṭṭhitā ceva sati upaṭṭhāti, asamāhitañca cittaṃ samādhiyati, aparikkhīṇā ca āsavā parikkhayaṃ gacchanti, ananuppattañca anuttaraṃ yogakkhemaṃ anupāpuṇāmī > 1. Moreover, while I am living here my unestablished mindfulness has become established… I have attained the unattained supreme security from bondage.’ > 2. yet to me abiding in this stretch of forest unestablished mindfulness gets established, the unconcentrated mind concentrates, the not destroyed desires get destroyed, and the not attained noble end of the yoke is attained. > 3. On the other hand, abiding supported in the forest wilderness, unattended mindfulness is looked after, unstilled mind is calmed, non-exhausted taints do disappear, not having reached the ultimate safety from the yoke, he does reach it.

Again here, Ajahn Brahmali doesn’t agree with the first translation, as it states that the attainment is complete. He says this sutta is about conditions for making progress, not that one is done making progress by reaching arahantship.

Conclusion: stay

Tena, bhikkhave, bhikkhunā saṅkhāpi tasmiṃ vanapatthe vatthabbaṃ, na pakkamitabbaṃ.
1. Having reflected thus, that bhikkhu should continue living in that jungle thicket; he should not depart.
2. That bhikkhu considering should not leave that stretch of forest, but should abide there.
3. Thus bhikkhus, by the monk’s reckoning, he should continue to fare in the forest wilderness, he should not go away.

Here, it becomes very clear what is the priority within the holy life. Spiritual progress trumps obtaining requisites. Even though the requisites are obtained with difficulty, the bhikkhu is able to use this situation as a means of practice that leads to liberation. If the level of requisite care sinks further and the difficulty became too much, the bhikkhu would fall into the first case and would then be advised to leave quickly.

Case 4: progress on path, easy to obtain requisites

Reflection: restates conditions. Conclusion: stay > Tena, bhikkhave, bhikkhunā yāvajīvampi tasmiṃ vanapatthe vatthabbaṃ, na pakkamitabbaṃ. > 1. That bhikkhu should continue living in that jungle thicket as long as life lasts; he should not depart.1 > 2. That bhikkhu considering should not leave that stretch of forest, should abide there, as long as life lasts.2 > 3. Thus bhikkhus, by the monk's reckoning, for the length of life, he should continue to fare in the forest wilderness, he should not go away.3

In this case, the bhikkhu should continue to stay and practice for the rest of his life. He would not have to bring this up for frequent consideration if progress is being made and the requisites well provided. However, if he fell into another case because of loss of progress or loss of requisites, reconsideration would need to be made and it might no longer be advisable to stay. This is much like the going into the holy life. A vow for life is not made in the Theravada ordination process, but if progress is being made, one should be very hesitant to leave the situation where that is happening.

Other environments

> Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu aññataraṃ gāmaṃ upanissāya viharati … pe … aññataraṃ nigamaṃ upanissāya viharati … pe … aññataraṃ nagaraṃ upanissāya viharati … pe … aññataraṃ janapadaṃ upanissāya viharati … pe … aññataraṃ puggalaṃ upanissāya viharati. > 1. “Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu lives in dependence upon a certain village... “Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu lives in dependence upon a certain town… “Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu lives in dependence upon a certain city… “Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu lives in dependence upon a certain country… “Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu lives in dependence upon a certain person... > 2. “Here bhikkhus, the bhikkhu abides supported on a certain village ... abides supported on a certain hamlet ... abides supported on a certain town ... abides supported on a certain state ... abides supported on a certain person. > 3. Here, bhikkhus, a certain bhikkhu abides dependent on a village … abides dependent on a town … abides dependent on a city … abides dependent on a country… abides dependent on a person…

In the Chinese parallels city and country are not included. This may be a case where the text was expanded. Given that the name of the sutta is ‘Forest Wilderness’ or ‘Jungle Thicket’ and that the Buddha repeatedly praises such places for practice, this seems a reasonable place to consider the text was expanded. It may even be that village and town were expansions, however the case of a monastery being in a park near a village or town would put the bhikkhus there in dependence on the village or town.

Dependent on a teacher

> Tassa taṃ puggalaṃ upanissāya viharato... > 1.Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu lives in dependence upon a certain person… > 2.Bhikkhus, when abiding supported on a certain person... > 3.Dependent on a person (NOTE: this would be dependence on a teacher.)

This person should be considered to be the bhikkhu’s teacher. When one gets down to the cases the conclusions are about continuing to follow the person. This would not make sense if this person was a lay supporter. However, for a teacher, the student should follow them at least during their years of dependency.

Case 1: no progress on path, difficult to obtain requisites

Reflection: restates conditions Conclusion: leave quickly without taking leave of the teacher > Tena, bhikkhave, bhikkhunā rattibhāgaṃ vā divasabhāgaṃ vā so puggalo anāpucchā pakkamitabbaṃ, ­nānu­bandhi­tabbo. > 1. That very night or that very day, that bhikkhu should depart from that person without taking leave; he should not continue following him. > 2. he should leave that person by night or by day without informing, so that he may not follow. > 3. Thus bhikkhus, by the monk, night or day, he should go away without taking leave of the person, not to be followed.

One of the duties of a monastic teacher is to look after the student’s requisites and if that is not done, the student doesn’t have responsibility to take leave.

The ‘not to be followed,’ part is hard tell if it is the student not to continue to follow the teacher or if it is so the teacher cannot follow the student that they leave. The later may be because the student has responsibility toward the teacher. However, since the relationship is not held up by the teacher, the student should not continue in the relationship. But the phrase is used in the next case as well, when the student is advised to take leave before departing. It seems most likely that this is just severing the teacher-student relationship of the student staying with the teacher.

Case 2: no progress on path, easy to obtain requisites

Reflection: restates conditions and notes that he didn’t go forth in order to get requisites. <bConclusion: leave after taking leave of the teacher > Tena, bhikkhave, bhikkhunā saṅkhāpi so puggalo āpucchā pakkamitabbaṃ, ­nānu­bandhi­tabbo. > 1. Having reflected thus, that bhikkhu should depart from that person after taking leave; he should not continue following him. > 2. that bhikkhu should leave that person without informing, so that he may not follow. > 3. Thus bhikkhus, by the monk’s reckoning, he should go away after taking leave of the person, not to be followed.

In this case one is ending the teacher-student relationship of living together, but not without respect for that relationship. In general, the teacher is responsible for helping a student who is under their dependency to go to another teacher. That may be part of what is indicated here.

Case 3: progress on path, difficult to obtain requisites

Reflection: restates conditions and notes that he didn’t go forth for requisites and progress is being made. Conclusion: continue to follow the teacher > Tena, bhikkhave, bhikkhunā saṅkhāpi so puggalo anubandhitabbo, na pakkamitabbaṃ. > 1. Having reflected thus, that bhikkhu should continue following that person; he should not depart from him. > 2. That bhikkhu considering should follow that person, should not leave him. > 3. Thus bhikkhus, by the monk’s reckoning, he should follow the person, he should not go away.

Here the student is getting the requisites with difficulty, so one might say there is a failing in the teacher. However, the student is making the important progress of the path under this teacher and so should value that above ease of obtaining requisites.

Case 4: progress on path, easy to obtain requisites

Reflection: restates conditions. Conclusion: continue to follow the teacher, even if told to leave > Tena, bhikkhave, bhikkhunā yāvajīvampi so puggalo anubandhitabbo, na pakkamitabbaṃ, api ­panuj­jamā­nenapī. > 1. That bhikkhu should continue following that person as long as life lasts; he should not depart from him even if told to go away. > 2. That bhikkhu should follow that person as long as he lives, even if chased should follow. > 3. Thus bhikkhus, by the monk, for life, he should follow the person, he should not go away, even if repulsed!

This final case ends with a humorous twist - even if the teacher tells the student to go, the student should not leave. One time where this might happen is when the student has been with the teacher the required number of years and is deemed no longer needing to be under dependency. Here the student sees that, with this teacher, spiritual progress is being made and the requisites are easy to obtain. So, being no fool, the student chooses to remain.

The Chinese parallels do not have the tag on of telling the student to go away. That and the addition of the city and country to the list of other environments are the only real differences between the Pali and Chinese versions.

Conclusion

This sutta is about discernment based on one’s true priorities. The highest priorities are not clothing, food, shelter and medicines. The highest priorities are those of spiritual progress.

Some questions one might ask to gauge one’s progress are:

  • In this environment can I practice and make progress in mindfulness of the body, of feeling, of mental states, and of Dhammas?
    • Is this environment one where mindfulness practices are supported throughout the day?
    • Can I be mindful of the condition of pleasant? Are these pleasant feelings those of the worldly pleasures, tied into the rounds of rebirth, or are these pleasant feeling those of the spiritual life that one might experience in meditation or in liberation? Ask the same for unpleasant and neither pleasant nor unpleasant.
    • Is this environment conducive to seeing the arising and passing of a mental state, such as anger or happiness, and seeing the characteristics of the mind with the mental state as it arises, persists, fades and vanishes?
    • Is one making progress with seeing the hindrances when present, when not present, and in seeing what causes them to arise and cease? Is one seeing the aggregates as they are affected by clinging? Similar questions can be asked about progress with seeing clearly the rest of the Dhammas.
  • Is this an environment where I can practice and make progress in meditation? Do the hindrances become quiet? Is the mind becoming still?
  • In this environment, am I gaining in capabilities to abandon the taints that keep me in the round of birth?
  • The days and nights are relentlessly passing. How well am I spending my time?

A final question comes again from the reflections for one who has gone forth. Is my practice bearing fruit with freedom or insight, so that at the end of my days I need not be ashamed when questioned by my spiritual companions? This, after all, is why one goes to the forest wilderness and why one studies with knowledgeable teachers.

In the end, answer to the question, “Should I stay, or should I go?” is found in the answer to the question, “Is my practice bearing fruit?” When one answers, “Yes,” they should stay. When one answers, “No,” they should go.

Glossary of some words in the sutta5

Vana1 (nt.) the forest; wood; as a place of pleasure & sport ("wood"), as well as of danger & frightfulness ("jungle"), also as resort of ascetics, noted for its loneliness ("forest"). -pattha a forest jungle Vana2 (nt.) lust, desire.

Pattha1 a lonely place, in cpd. vana° , a wilderness in the forest.
Pattha2 a Prastha (certain measure of capacity)=1/4 of an Āḷhaka; a cooking utensil containing one

Pariyāya lit. “going round” analysed by Bdhgh in 3 diff. meanings, viz. vāra (turn, course), desanā (instruction, presentation), and kāraṇa (cause, reason, also case, matter). - 1. arrangement, disposition, in phrase °ṃ karoti to arrange . - 2. order, succession, turn, course. - 3. what goes on, way, habit, quality, property. - 4. discussion, instruction, method (of teaching). - 5. in Abhidhamma terminology, specifically: pariyāyena, the mode of teaching in the Suttanta, ad hominem, discursively, applied method, illustrated discourse, figurative language as opposed to the abstract, general statements of Abhidhamma. - 6. mode, manner, reason, cause, way. - 7. winding round (of a tree: branch).

Ārāma - 1. pleasure, fondness of (-°), delight, always as adj. (-°) delighting in, enjoying, finding pleasure in (usually combd. with rata, e. g. dhammārāma dhammarata finding delight in the Dh.). - 2. a pleasure-ground, park, garden (lit. sport, sporting) Therefore: (a) (in general) a park, resort for pastime etc. - (b) (in special) a private park, given to the Buddha or the Sangha for the benefit of the bhikkhus, where they meet & hold discussions about sacred & secular matters; a place of recreation and meditation, a meeting place for religious gatherings. Amongst the many ārāmas given to the bhikkhus the most renowned is that of Anāthapiṇḍika.

Upanissayati to depend or rely on

Upaṭṭhahati 1. (trs.) to stand near or at hand (with acc.), to wait on, attend on, serve, minister, to care for, look after, nurse (in sickness). - 2. (intrs.) to stand out or forth, to appear, to arise, occur, to be present

Samādahati to put together, to kindle a fire; cittaṃ s. to compose the mind, concentrate; Pass. samādhiyati to be stayed, composed

Parikkhīyati to go to ruin, to be wasted or exhausted
Parikkhaya exhaustion, waste, diminution, decay, loss, end

Anupāpuṇāti to reach, attain, get to, find
Anupatta (having) attained, received, got to (c. acc), reached

Yoga lit. “yoking, or being yoked,” i. e. connection, bond, means; fig. application, endeavour, device. - 1. yoke, yoking (rare?). - 2. connection with (-°), application to; (natural) relation (i. e. body, living connection), association; also conjunction (of stars). - 3. (fig.) bond, tie; attachment (to the world and its lusts), or what yokes to rebirth. . - 4. application, endeavour, undertaking, effort. - kkhema rest from work or exertion, or fig. in scholastic interpretation “peace from bondage,” i. e. perfect peace or “uttermost safety”; a freq. epithet of nibbāna

Anuttara (adj.) “nothing higher”, without a superior, incomparable, second to none, unsurpassed, excellent, preeminent

Āpucchati to enquire after, look for, ask, esp. to ask permission or leave;

Anubandhati to follow, run after, pursue grd. °bandhitabba.

Panudatito dispel, repel, remove, push away. - ger. panuditvā, & panujja. -Pass. panujjati, ppr. panujjamāna in phrase “api panujjamānena pi” even if repulsed.

References:

Recorded talks

* [Talk by Ajahn Brahmali](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xYYGQH1XVE) * [Talk by Bhante Sujato](http://www.dhammanet.org/mn-17-vanapattha-sutta) * [Talk from the Buddha Meditation Centre Winnepeg](https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-4tDjkCm46UcFFSOFNQcWZKOVE/view )

Text and translations

Footnotes

1 Translations marked 1 are by Bhikkhu Ñaṇamoli and Bhikkhu Bodhi 2 Translations marked 2 are by Sister Upalavana (found on Sutta Central) 3 Translations marked 3 are by Niyyānikā Sāmaṇerī 4 This can be found in the book of the nines, number 6 and is called ‘association’ in Bhikkhu Bodhi’s translation 5 Definitions are from the PTS Dictionary.
11 Likes

It is nice to see that you are studying Pali. Overall you seem to have a good grasp of what is going on, and it’s good to see that you are not afraid of experimenting with new renderings. Occasionally your grammar is a bit off, and there are a few other things I would have done differently, too. I have commented on those below. Please forgive me if I seem unreasonably nit-picky and fault-finding!

1. vanapatthapariyāyaṃ vo, bhikkhave, (desessāmi)

“Bhikkhus, I shall instruct you on the forest wilderness.”

This is good, especially “forest wilderness”, which I think is more precise than “jungle thickets”. But you have not translated the word pariyāya, which quite literally means “discourse”, at least in this context. And you have left out desessāmi from the Pali. It needs to be included because it belongs to this sentence. So perhaps: “I shall teach you a discourse on the forest wilderness.”

2. Evaṃ me sutaṃ— ekaṃ samayaṃ bhagavā sāvatthiyaṃ viharati jetavane anāthapiṇḍikassa ārāme.

“This may be translated as: Thus have I heard. On one occasion the Blessed One was staying at Sāvatthī, residing in the Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s Park.”

This is fine, but if I was going to be pedantic, I might object to translating viharati twice: “staying” and “residing”. But I am not pedantic, so it’s fine!

3. Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu aññataraṃ vanapatthaṃ upanissāya viharati.

“Here, bhikkhus, a certain bhikkhu abides, depending on a forest wilderness.”

In this sentence “a certain” should qualify “forest wilderness”, not bhikkhu. Also, when translating this kind of sentence, it is important to consider what words like idha mean. Often idha just introduces an example, and that seems to be the case here. So it could be translated as “Take the case where” or “In a situation where” or perhaps just “If” or “When”.

4. Tassa taṃ vanapatthaṃ upanissāya viharato anupaṭṭhitā ceva sati na upaṭṭhāti

“If, when abiding supported on the forest wilderness, unattended mindfulness is not looked after”

Nice try, but I am not sure if this makes good sense. And good sense is an important criterion for whether a translation is successful. “Unattended mindfulness” is a contradiction in terms, because mindfulness is synonymous with attention; in other words, it’s a bit like saying “unattended attention” or “unaware awareness”. And so another meaning is required. For me, “unestablished mindfulness” works fine.

Further down you say: “The question is: In this environment can I practice and make progress in mindfulness of the body, of feeling, of mental states, and of Dhammas?” I would argue that it is not so much about whether one “can practice and make progress”, but the more pragmatic question of whether one actually “does make progress”. The proof of the pudding and all that.

5. aparikkhīṇā ca āsavā na parikkhayaṃ gacchanti,

“non-exhausted taints are not exhausted”

I like “exhausted” for parikkhaya; it is better than “destroyed”. “Taints” is probably a bit weak for āsavā, which are the root defilements of the mind. I would suggest “corruptions” or “pollutions”.

6. ananuppattañca anuttaraṃ yogakkhemaṃ nānupāpuṇāti.

“not having reached the ultimate rest from exertion, he does not reach it.”

Here you seem to have read the past participle ananuppattañ (“not reached”) as an absolutive, “not having reached”. Ananuppattañ needs to be read as an adjective that qualifies the main noun, yogakkhemaṃ. In other words, it is the “rest from exertion which is unattained” or the “unattained rest from exertion”. So in a literal rendering of the Pali you have a doubling of the idea of not attaining: “he does not attain the unattained, ultimate rest from exertion”, which can then be simplified into standard English.

7. Ye ca kho ime pabbajitena jīvitaparikkhārā samudānetabbā —cīvarapiṇḍapātasenāsanagilānappaccayabhesajjaparikkhārā—te kasirena samudā­gacchanti.

“indeed, also, this one’s requisites of monastic life that should be obtained — robes, almsfood, resting place, and medicinal requisites when ill — are trouble to get.”

I am not sure what you are intending with your translations and whether you wish to mirror the Pali as closely as possible. If you wish to mirror the Pali, especially grammatically, I would suggest to translate as follows: “These (ime – nominative plural, pronoun agreeing with jīvitaparikkhārā) requisites of life (jīvitaparikkhārā – nominative plural, main noun, the effective patient of this passive sentence) that must be obtained (samudānetabbā – passive future participle, agreeing with jīvitaparikkhārā like an adjective and making the sentence passive) by one gone forth (pabbajitena – instrumental, the effective agent of the passive sentence) — robes, almsfood, resting place, and medicinal requisites for the ill (cīvarapiṇḍapātasenāsanagilānappaccayabhesajjaparikkhārā – nominative plural, agreeing with jīvitaparikkhārā) — they (te – nominative plural, being the grammatical agent of samudāgacchanti and agreeing with all the preceding nominative plurals) are obtained (samudāgacchanti – main sentence verb, third person present tense) with difficulty (kasirena – adverb, qualifying samudāgacchanti).”

That is, “These requisites of life that must be obtained by one gone forth — robes, almsfood, resting place, and medicinal requisites for the — they are obtained with difficulty.”

Because it is not clear to me exactly what feedback you are expecting, I will stop there. In general I would recommend you to translate very literally in the beginning, until you get a better feel for the language and how it works. Over time you can take a more relaxed approach to translation, precisely because you have done the groundwork.

In any case, good luck and enjoy your studies. We need more proficient translators!

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Anjali Ajahn Brahmali,

Thank you for the feedback. It is much appreciated. We will use your helpful comments in our Dhammadharini study hall tomorrow afternoon. I’ll also edit the essay where appropriate.

With appreciation and respect,
Samaneri Niyyanika

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Dear Ayya,

Lovely to see this work here, congratulations.

I wanted to say, if you are interested, I could give you a user access to my ongoing translations (which include all of AN and SN, and half of MN so far). That might be interesting for you to read; but also, I would appreciate any comments and feedback.

I don’t have anything to add to Ven Brahmali’s comments, except regarding this:

Another approach would be to start by doing trilinear work: text, word-by-word analysis, translation. That way you are forced to do the nitty-gritty of figuring out the grammar of the text, and you also learn how to express that in a reasonably idiomatic form.

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Anjali Ajahn Sujato,

I would very much appreciate seeing the translations, although I don’t know that I would be able to contribute any worthwhile feedback until I have a fair number more years of study.

The trilinear approach has been very helpful. I find I am a slow student on the grammar and it will take me much more use of that format to really get the grammar clear.

We have been working through the Dhammapada at Dhammadharini. We started doing our own translations with the 10th Vagga over a year ago. I then went back and tried the first vagga on my own. Now with two new monastic life aspirants, one of whom is a student of linguistics, we are about to resume Pali studies and go over the first vagga.

Here is what we worked on today:

If this type of study guide is useful we would be happy to post these links somewhere in the forum as we review them. It is a question of whether the material would benefit someone who wasn’t in the process of creating the material. It has generated rich discussion here both about the Pali and about what it means for the direction of practice.

I didn’t use the trilinear on Vanapattha Sutta because I was trying to create something that could be used for our Sutta Study program rather than the Pali studies. In the Sutta Study we’ve sometimes received feedback that there is too much Pali, but others love it, so I was aiming for a balance.

Hopefully, with more study, I’ll learn enough grammar, vocabulary and language structure, to be able to form non-clunky sentences with more ease.

With appreciation and respect,
Samaneri Niyyanika

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I would be interested in this!

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Hi Bhanthes,

In AN 10.99 the Buddha says that living in the forest isn’t for all types of individuals.

  1. Upalisuttaṃ - Venerable Upali
  1. Venerable Upali approached The Blessed One, worshipped, sat on side and said: “Venerable sir, I desire to live in forest dwellings and jungle paths.
    “Upali, life in forest dwellings and jungle paths is difficult to bear. It is difficult to be attached to seclusion. The mind of the bhikkhu who is not concentrated is carried away by solitude. Upali, if someone says: I will abide in jungle forests to gain concentration. He could expect a sinking down or an elation.
    Upali, a huge elephant of about seven or seven and half cubits comes to a huge pond of water. It occurs to him: `What if I descend this pond, enjoy washing my ears and back, bathe and drink and ascending the pond go where I like. 'Then the huge elephant descends to the pond, enjoys washing his ears and back, bathes, drinks and ascends from it and goes wherever he likes. What is the reason? Upali, he has a huge self, and could withstand that depth and enjoy the depth .
    Then a hare or a cat comes and it occurs to it: If the huge elephant can why can’t I.? What if I ascend the great pond, enjoy washing my ears and back, drink and bathe and ascending go where I want to go. Without considering he jumps into the great pond, and he should expect this. -Either sinking or being thrown up . What is the reason?
    Upali the self is small, the pond is deep, it cannot withstand the depth. In the same manner, Upali if someone says: I will abide in jungle forests to gain concentration. He could expect a sinking down or an elation.

I think it is best to determine for oneself what environment is conducive to ones’ own practice. Going to the jungle isn’t practical for many.

With metta

Warm greetings Mat,

Perhaps it is better to say that the forest isn’t the right living environment at all stages of spiritual development. Not that development can’t be done outside of a forest, but the Buddha does praise forests as a place excellent for higher development.

Later in AN 10.99 it says:

Upali, my disciples dwell in forests and jungle paths, when they see these good things in them, not until then.

and this is after expressing various stages of mental faculties under development, starting with a young child who plays with his own poop as enjoyable, and grows in maturity to playing with other toys. It leads up through stages to the wish to go forth from household life and then through cultivation of morality and mindfulness and setting aside the hinderances and entering the jhanas.

I haven’t looked into Upali to see if there is more about this monk, but, just from this sutta, would say that at the time he was requesting to go to the forest, the Buddha was letting him know he needs to work on morality and mindfulness first.

With kind regards,
Sister Niyyanika

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