Oops … and the text has now reverted back to the dppn version. Could you please change the text and then I will change it in the backend also. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Sure, I’ll get to it soon.
@Aminah - could you go over the descriptions in the map and clean up the references to suttas where needed?
For instance, if you look at the description for Campā, you see this sentence:
The Buddha himself stayed thereon several occasions.Vin.i.312SN.i.195AN.iv.59AN.iv.168AN.v.151Vin.i.3121
Could you add spaces and semi-colons in such sentences where needed, so it becomes more readable like this:
The Buddha himself stayed thereon several occasions. (Vin.i.312; SN.i.195; AN.iv.59; AN.iv.168; AN.v.151; Vin.i.3121).
Thanks!
Ayya, would that not be easier to do with a regex on the KML data? The dictionary file has markup for exactly this purpose, adding it by hand seems a waste. Even a simple find/replace would do it:
</ref><ref> —> </ref>, <ref>You are right to say that that would have been easier, if I had though of doing that at the start.
The original dictionary file (placenames.kml) had markup that has disappeared when importing it into google maps.
The dictionary file sc_dppn is far bigger (also including persons, etc.) The other files that were extracted from that into kml format (placenames.kml and allplacenames.kml) have not been updated with changed descriptions in the google kml. So it would take me some time to extract a new updated kml file from sc_dppn. I think it is far easier to go over the entries in the map and change them - there are not that many.
I’m happy to do it, although am a bit pressed for time at the minute so might not get to it for a day or so.
As quite a big step on from this point, as I was going through the map in the first place, I did think it would be quite nice if the references were updated from the PTS format. If the primary purpose of this exercise is to make the suttas more accessible to people unfamiliar with them I’d say the new numbers would be preferable - I certainly know I was a bit bamboozled trying to suss out the numbering. If you think it makes any sense, I wouldn’t mind doing it as a slow-burning job.
I actually had the same thought. @Sujato - what do you think?
You can a find the PTS numbers in the suttas by clicking on the menu and then going to Controls - Textual Information. The PTS numbers then appear to the right of the text (at least in the Pali version).
Yes, it’s a great feature (and also in the Nikaya lists), but it’s still a bit difficult to find a sutta if all you’ve got to start with is the PTS number (unless I’ve missed something really obvious). Furthermore, you actually have to know there are various different numbering systems in play in the first place (I started out using Access to Insight, and it took me a while to even realise there were PTS numbers, not to mention failing to initially realise that BB/SC have some updated ‘new numbers’).
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and there’s occasional discrepancy between ATI AN and SN sutta numbers and those of SC.
I’ve now added brackets, spaces and semi-colons to reference lists. Obviously, there’s a bit of an inconsistency with reference formatting between individual ones and lists, but it’ll have to be for a day with absolutely nothing to do before I think about making the format consistent - it’s only cosmetic. 
I only did it by quick scan, so apologies if I’ve missed anything.
While going through these things pop up:
Isipatana / Migadaya
In the 4th paragraph I changed “the.” → “them:”
Kūṭāgārasālā
I couldn’t actually add the spaces to this one as the text limit of the description has been reached.
CETIYA / CETI / CETĪ / CEDI
Looking up AN6.46, AN10.24 and AN10.85 it seemed right to replace:
AN.iii.355f; AN.v.41f and AN.v.157ff are among several discourses preached to the Cetis, while the Buddha dwelt in their town of Sahajāti.
with:
AN.iii.355f; AN.v.41f and AN.v.157ff are discources preached to the Cetis by Mahācunda.
KOSALA
The Sutta Nipāta (Snp.405; AN.i.276) speaks of the Buddha’s…
I’m not sure if AN3.125 is meant to be a parallel text and I can’t check because the PTS verse numbers are only showing on the Pārāyana Vagga at the moment. If it isn’t a parallel I’d change it to “(Snp.405; and also AN.i.276)”.
LICCHAVĪ
I noticed that description is cut off as the text limit has been reached.
Also,
It’s possible that I might start weeping if I continue looking at the map with the understanding that Nāla and Nāḷandā are referring to the same place as Ven. Sujato has suggested and yet have different listings. I’ve left it untouched as I didn’t think it was my place to remove a listing.
Also, also,
What does ‘f’ stand for in, eg. SN.iv.179f?
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Thanks for this. I don’t actually know what ATI stands for, but yes, I did eventually work out there are these discrepancies. The reason why I mentioned the point is because it has been stated that a key motivation for creating this map is to support people new to the suttas. Confusion over the numbering systems (and discrepancies) in use certainly didn’t make beginning to explore the suttas any easier for me, and I figured it might be worth raising the issue in this connection.
At no point did I ever try to suggest I wasn’t thick as!
“On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling among the Sumbhas, where there was a town of the Sumbhas named Sedaka.”
I can’t seem to locate this on the map.
I see. Another reason why, as I suggested yesterday, using this Google app should be only an interim solution. It took a lot of work to get those references into a marked up form: we shouldn’t lose it. If at all possible, we should reintegrate the text changes back into the dictionary files, so that in the future we can build an app with properly formatted and linked references. I think there are only a few places where the text of the entry has been changed, am I right?
Yes: our numbers follow those of Ven Bodhi.
Welcome to despair. It is a familiar emotion.
If you want, just make a list of dubious points as you come across them, and we’ll try to look at them at some time.
The “f” is a convention meaning “and the following page”. “ff” means “and the following pages”.
It would be great, but is far from trivial. Sometimes a page has multiple suttas, or a sutta starts in the middle of a sutta. Also, when it’s a long sutta, say in the DN, a page reference is more specific than a plain ID, but it would be hard to identify the exact paragraph. And so on. For tens of thousands of cases.
Rather than converting such references, this is why I suggested at the meeting yesterday that we build a comprehensive model to map these references. The conversion mapping remains on the programming side, and we don’t try to correct the text. That way we can direct people to the appropriate place, without having to commit to actually determining the exact reference. If we send people to a text that is a little before or after the right one, oh well, they can adjust.
What we can do is to make the references machine-readable, which means two things:
- Mark them up with
<ref>tags or similar. - Ensure each reference is complete and consistent.
I did this as best I could during the several months work it took to prepare the DPPN.
It’s not lost. I have it in the sc_dppn, which is what shows up on SC as you can see. Any changes to texts I have made to the dictionary on SC by hand so the markup was not lost.
[quote=“sujato, post:43, topic:2643”]
Also, when it’s a long sutta, say in the DN, a page reference is more specific than a plain ID, but it would be hard to identify the exact paragraph.
[/quote].
Every PTS id also has our format of uid#sc-id or uid#pts-id, which can be a link. See for instance Makuṭabandhana on the map as an example - it opens up at exactly the right spot in the text on SC (in Pali … can change it to English too).
Unfortunately, we cannot use <a> tags on Google maps but we can add the urls and as soon as the map is on our own site, it is possible to have the references as you describe.
Okay, cool.