This is accepted English idiom: to and fro
3 Likes
“Mendicants, these four people are found in the world.
What four?
People who value anger, or denigration, or material possessions, or honor rather than the true teaching.
These are the four people found in the world.
Should probably replace “the four” with simply “four”.
Use of “the four” normally indicates complete coverage of all people, whereas “four” used alone typically indicates “a subset of people”. The following stanza introduces four more people who value the true teaching. The sutta introduces two groups of four people and uses the subtly different enumerations to drive home its point. Yet the enumerations are partial and together cover the set of all people as two sets of four.
Suggest:
These are
thefour people found in the world.
The reader will still assume “the” at first glance, which will reinforce the magic of the sutta upon re-reading.
1 Like
Was away visiting Wat Pah Nanachat for the past few weeks. Continuing my read through and review of the Vibhaṅga.
Saṅghadisesa 9 – acetic
1 Like
Dear Sirs,
In Ven. Sujāto’s translation of Saṃyutta Nikāya, Māhāvagga, Anuruddha Saṃyutta,
#1- Pathama rahogata sutta,
ekaṃ samayaṃ āyasmā anuruddho sāvatthiyaṃ viharati
appears to be rendered as:
At one time Venerable Sāriputta was staying near Sāvatthī
Seems a simple typo.
Best regards,
Stephen
3 Likes
This is my own inclination here just thought the wording “for doing it” in reference to sexual intercourse is a bit juvenile. However, if one was trying to abstain from using the words “sexual intercourse”, the words coitus, congress, or copulation are all suitable alternatives.
Again just personal taste here.
3 Likes
Thanks, this is a good point. I have translated the Pali literally, but in this case perhaps unnecessarily so. I shall consider rephrasing it.
4 Likes
Ah I see now – kammaniyañceva, meaning reading or fit for an act. Well in that case, no harm in sticking close to the pāli.
And one more for the day.
“he is be dealt with” – should be “he is to be dealt…”
3 Likes
Could you say “doing the act?”
I also find “doing it” to be a bit juvenile. In my head I imaging someone snickering after they say it. 
3 Likes
i[quote=“Snowbird, post:470, topic:9548”]
doing it
[/quote]
I have never done it in a chair or while sitting. Therefore the conclusion that the act is actually sex may be unfounded.
Given the Vinaya’s excrutiatingly detailed prohibitions on orifice use elsewhere, I find the ambiguity of “the act” significant. It could be as simple as a touch of regretful lustful longing. Or it could be far more.
1 Like
“When it had been died” —> “When it has been dyed”
“Whatever acetic” —> “Whatever ascetic”
3 Likes
NP 6 - he commit an offense —> he commits an offense
NP 7 - he commit an offense —> he commits an offense
Also occurs in the permuations of NP 7
3 Likes
The same error as above in NP 9’s permutations – “he commit an offense”
NP 10
“and stands six time” --> “and stands six times”
3 Likes
It looks like Sariputta’s theragatha is incomplete, both in the original Pali and in its translation.
Also, a lot of (all?) the Pali texts from the Sutta Nipata have some non-sutta reference text in them (e.g. “Chulachomklao Pāḷi Tipiṭaka 2436 (1893)” here).
Is this normal?
Same goes for a lot of the Pali suttas from the Udana & Itivuttaka.
Blurb text to SN 12.18:
A wanderer named Timbaruka approaches the Buddha while he is on alms round and asks whether pleasure and pain are created by oneself, by another, by both, or by chance. Explaining why he rejects all these options, the Buddha asserts that suffering arises due to conditions.
The wanderer Timbaruka doesn’t approach the Buddha on alms round but just goes up to him, exchanges greetings and sits to one side. The one who met him on alms round was Kassapa the naked ascetic in the previous sutta. Also, in this sutta it is not about suffering, but about pleasure and pain (correct in the first sentence, not so in the last). Probably a copying error.
Suggestion:
A wanderer named Timbaruka asks the Buddha whether pleasure and pain are created by oneself, by another, by both, or by chance. Explaining why he rejects all these options, the Buddha asserts that pleasure and pain arise due to conditions.
2 Likes
Actually, I looked at the Pali and something very interesting is happening.
- Timbaruka is asking about pleasure and pain (sukhadukkhaṃ)
- The Buddha answers about suffering (dukkhakkhandhassa)
And what makes this so fascinating is that the Buddha is answering Timbaruka’s real question, which is about choices. Timbaruka is overthinking things and wondering whether choices should be made regarding pleasure/pain for one’s self or an other. We conventionally make choices based on pleasure or pain and Timbaruka is lost trying to find out what the basis for making correct choices by trying to walk backward from pleasure or pain to a trustworthy basis for choice.
And the Buddha cuts through the confusion with surgical precision and gently suggests to Timbaruka that the extremes of “me” and “you” are best avoided by choosing the middle way (i.e., “us”). The problem disappears when one cuts the cake and the other chooses their half. Then there is no pleasure or pain and the entire mass of suffering and consciousness evaporates.
Thank you for a new sutta to read!
4 Likes
SN 12.25 With Bhūmija
Blurb text
Sāriputta is asked by Venerable Bhūmija as to the origin of pleasure and pain. He replies that the Buddha teaches that pleasure and pain originate by conditions. Moreover, all those who offer opinions as to the source of suffering are themselves part of the web of conditions, as they cannot state their views without contact. Ānanda reports the exchange to the Buddha, who praises Sāriputta’s answer.
Should be “who offer opinions as to the source of pleasure and pain” (that’s what it says in the sutta).
#sc 3.1
“Reverend, the Buddha said that suffering is dependently originated.
“Paṭiccasamuppannaṃ kho, āvuso, sukhadukkhaṃ vuttaṃ bhagavatā.
Should be: the Buddha said that pleasure and pain are dependently originated.
#sc 5.1 and again #sc 9.1
“Consider the ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. In the case of those who declare that pleasure and pain are made by oneself, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact.”
Ellipses are lacking at the end of the segment.
2 Likes
Hi, the translation says he “stood” to one side, but the Pali says that he sat.
My 1st correction! 
3 Likes