Resources for the study of the verses at Kosambi

Translations
1

Among the rather dismal sequence of events at Kosambi, one redeeming feature is the inspiring set of verses spoken by the Buddha as he leaves. These verses, or at least the first several of them, pose a number of translation difficulties. They appear in full or part in several places, and have received multiple commentaries and translations. As I try to find the best way to express these verses, I’ll collect various resources in this post, for my own benefit, and hopefully to aid fellow students.

Here, for your delight and rejoicing, is my current draft translation of the whole set of verses.

“When many voices shout at once,
no-one thinks that they’re a fool!
While the Saṅgha was being split,
none thought another to be better.

Dolts pretending to be astute,
they talk, their words right out of bounds.
They blab at will, their mouths agape,
and no-one knows what leads them on.

‘He abused me, he hit me!
He beat me, he took from me!’
Those who cling to hate like this
never settle their enmity.

‘He abused me, he hit me!
He beat me, he took from me!’
Those who never cling to hate
always settle their enmity.

For enmity in this world
is never settled by enmity.
It’s only settled by love:
this is an ancient principle.

Others don’t understand
that here we should control ourselves.
The clever ones who know this
settle their quarrels right away.

Breakers of bones and takers of life,
thieves of cattle, horses, wealth,
those who plunder the nation:
even they can come together,
so why on earth can’t you?

If you find a discreet companion,
a firm and virtuous friend,
then, overcoming all challenges,
wander with them, joyful and mindful.

If you find no discreet companion,
no firm and virtuous friend,
then, like a king who flees his conquered realm,
wander alone like a tusker in the wilds.

It’s better to wander alone,
for a fool can never be a friend.
Wander alone and do no wrong,
at ease like a tusker in the wilds.”

Pali text and parallels

The verses occur in full at MN 128, Vinaya Kd 10, and Ja 428. Here is the Pali, and I will note partial parallels as I come across them. various other parallels are recorded by Analayo in his Comparative Studies, but here I will only mention the ones I have actually referred to. Below i will discuss translation issues.

  1. “Puthusaddo samajano,
    na bālo koci maññatha;
    Saṃghasmiṃ bhijjamānasmiṃ,
    nāññaṃ bhiyyo amaññaruṃ.

  2. Parimuṭṭhā paṇḍitābhāsā,
    vācā­gocara­bhāṇino;
    Yāvicchanti mukhāyāmaṃ,
    yena nītā na taṃ vidū.
    (also Ud 5.9)

  3. Akkocchi maṃ avadhi maṃ,
    ajini maṃ ahāsi me;
    Ye ca taṃ upanayhanti,
    veraṃ tesaṃ na sammati.
    (from here to verse 6 are Dhp 3–6, with parallels in the Patna Dhp)

  4. Akkocchi maṃ avadhi maṃ,
    ajini maṃ ahāsi me;
    Ye ca taṃ nupanayhanti,
    veraṃ tesūpasammati.

  5. Na hi verena verāni,
    sammantīdha kudācanaṃ;
    Averena ca sammanti,
    esa dhammo sanantano.

  6. Pare ca na vijānanti,
    mayamettha yamāmase;
    Ye ca tattha vijānanti,
    tato sammanti medhagā.

  7. Aṭṭhicchinnā pāṇaharā,
    gavāssa dhanahārino;
    Raṭṭhaṃ vilumpamānānaṃ,
    tesampi hoti saṅgati;
    Kasmā tumhāka no siyā.

  8. Sace labhetha nipakaṃ sahāyaṃ,
    Saddhiṃ caraṃ sādhu­vihāri­dhīraṃ;
    Abhibhuyya sabbāni parissayāni,
    Careyya tenattamano satīmā.
    (This and the next are at Snp 1.3#11–12)

  9. No ce labhetha nipakaṃ sahāyaṃ,
    Saddhiṃ caraṃ sādhu­vihāri­dhīraṃ;
    Rājāva raṭṭhaṃ vijitaṃ pahāya,
    Eko care mātaṅgaraññeva nāgo.

  10. Ekassa caritaṃ seyyo,
    Natthi bāle sahāyatā;
    Eko care na pāpāni kayirā,
    Appossukko mātaṅgaraññeva nāgo”ti.

Various commentaries

The commentaries for these verses share much in common, but some shed additional light on certain aspects. It’s a hassle to hunt them down, so I will simply paste them here for convenience.

MN 128

Idāni puthusaddotiādigāthāsu puthu mahāsaddo assāti puthusaddo. Samajanoti samāno ekasadiso jano, sabbovāyaṃ bhaṇḍanakārakajano samantato saddaniccharaṇena puthusaddo ceva sadiso cāti vuttaṃ hoti. Na bālo koci maññathāti tatra koci ekopi ahaṃ bāloti na maññati, sabbepi paṇḍitamāninoyeva. Nāññaṃ bhiyyo amaññarunti koci ekopi ahaṃ bāloti na ca maññi, bhiyyo ca saṅghasmiṃ bhijjamāne aññampi ekaṃ ‘‘mayhaṃ kāraṇā saṅgho bhijjatī’’ti idaṃ kāraṇaṃ na maññīti attho.

Parimuṭṭhāti muṭṭhassatino. Vācāgocarabhāṇinoti rākārassa rassādeso kato; vācāgocarāva , na satipaṭṭhānagocarā, bhāṇino ca, kathaṃ bhāṇino? Yāvicchanti mukhāyāmaṃ, yāva mukhaṃ pasāretuṃ icchanti, tāva pasāretvā bhāṇino, ekopi saṅghagāravena mukhasaṅkocanaṃ na karotīti attho. Yena nītāti yena kalahena imaṃ nillajjabhāvaṃ nītā. Na taṃ vidū na taṃ jānanti ‘‘evaṃ sādīnavo aya’’nti.

Ye ca taṃ upanayhantīti taṃ akkocchi mantiādikaṃ ākāraṃ ye upanayhanti. Sanantanoti porāṇo.

Pareti paṇḍite ṭhapetvā tato aññe bhaṇḍanakārakā pare nāma. Te ettha saṅghamajjhe kalahaṃ karontā ‘‘mayaṃ yamāmase upayamāma nassāma satataṃ samitaṃ maccusantikaṃ gacchāmā’’ti na jānanti. Ye ca tattha vijānantīti ye ca tattha paṇḍitā ‘‘mayaṃ maccuno samīpaṃ gacchāmā’’ti vijānanti. Tato sammanti medhagāti evañhi te jānantā yonisomanasikāraṃ uppādetvā medhagānaṃ kalahānaṃ vūpasamāya paṭipajjanti.

Aṭṭhicchinnāti ayaṃ gāthā jātake (jā. 1.9.16) āgatā, brahmadattañca dīghāvukumārañca sandhāya vuttā. Ayañhettha attho – tesampi tathā pavattaverānaṃ hoti saṅgati, kasmā tumhākaṃ na hoti, yesaṃ vo neva mātāpitūnaṃ aṭṭhīni chinnāni, na pāṇā haṭā na gavāssadhanāni haṭānīti.

Sacelabhethātiādigāthā paṇḍitasahāyassa ca bālasahāyassa ca vaṇṇāvaṇṇadīpanatthaṃ vuttā. Abhibhuyya sabbāni parissayānīti pākaṭaparissaye ca paṭicchannaparissaye ca abhibhavitvā tena saddhiṃ attamano satimā careyyāti.

Rājāva raṭṭhaṃ vijitanti yathā attano vijitaraṭṭhaṃ mahājanakarājā ca arindamamahārājā ca pahāya ekakā vicariṃsu, evaṃ vicareyyāti attho. Mātaṅgaraññeva nāgoti mātaṅgo araññe nāgova. Mātaṅgoti hatthi vuccati. Nāgoti mahantādhivacanametaṃ. Yathā hi mātuposako mātaṅganāgo araññe eko cari, na ca pāpāni akāsi, yathā ca pālileyyako, evaṃ eko care, na ca pāpāni kayirāti vuttaṃ hoti.

Ud 5.9

Tattha parimuṭṭhāti dandhā muṭṭhassatino. Paṇḍitābhāsāti paṇḍitapatirūpakā ‘‘ke aññe jānanti, mayamevettha jānāmā’’ti tasmiṃ tasmiṃ atthe attānameva jānantaṃ katvā samudācaraṇato. Vācāgocarabhāṇinoti yesaṃ vācā eva gocaro visayo, te vācāgocarabhāṇino, vācāvatthumattasseva bhāṇino atthassa apariññātattā. Atha vā vācāya agocaraṃ ariyānaṃ kathāya avisayaṃ musāvādaṃ bhaṇantīti vācāgocarabhāṇino. Atha vā ‘‘gocarabhāṇino’’ti ettha ākārassa rassabhāvo kato. Vācāgocarā, na satipaṭṭhānādigocarā bhāṇinova. Kathaṃ bhāṇino? Yāvicchanti mukhāyāmaṃ attano yāva mukhāyāmaṃ yāva mukhappasāraṇaṃ icchanti, tāva pasāretvā bhāṇino, paresu gāravena, attano avisayatāya ca mukhasaṅkocaṃ na karontīti attho. Atha vā vācāgocarā eva hutvā bhāṇino, sayaṃ ajānitvā parapattikā eva hutvā vattāroti attho. Tato eva yāvicchanti mukhāyāmaṃ yena vacanena sāvetabbā, taṃ acintetvā yāvadeva attano mukhappasāraṇamattaṃ icchantīti attho. Yena nītā na taṃ vidūti yena muṭṭhassaccādinā nillajjabhāvaṃ paṇḍitamānībhāvañca nītā ‘‘mayamevaṃ bhaṇāmā’’ti, taṃ tathā attano bhaṇantassa kāraṇaṃ na vidū, aviddasuno asūrā na jānantīti attho.

Vinaya Kd 10

464.Puthusaddotiādigāthāsu pana puthu mahā saddo assāti puthusaddo. Samajanoti samāno ekasadiso jano; sabbo cāyaṃ bhaṇḍanakārakojano samantato saddanicchāraṇena puthusaddo ceva sadiso cāti vuttaṃ hoti. Na bālo koci maññathāti tattha koci ekopi ‘‘ahaṃ bālo’’ti na maññittha; sabbepi paṇḍitamāninoyeva. Nāññaṃ bhiyyo amaññarunti koci ekopi ‘‘ahaṃ bālo’’ti ca na maññittha; bhiyyo ca saṅghasmiṃ bhijjamāne aññampi ekaṃ ‘‘mayhaṃ kāraṇā saṅgho bhijjatī’’ti idaṃ kāraṇaṃ na maññitthāti attho.

Parimuṭṭhāti parimuṭṭhassatino. Vācāgocarabhāṇinoti rākārassa rassādeso kato , vācāgocarā na satipaṭṭhānādigocarā. Bhāṇino ca kathaṃ bhāṇino? Yāvicchanti mukhāyāmaṃ yāva mukhaṃ pasāretuṃ icchanti, tāva pasāretvā bhāṇino, ekopi saṅghagāravena mukhasaṅkocaṃ na karotīti attho. Yena nītāti yena kalahena imaṃ nillajjabhāvaṃ nītā. Na taṃ vidūti na taṃ jānanti, ‘‘evaṃ sādīnavo aya’’nti.

Ye ca taṃ upanayhantīti taṃ ‘‘akkocchi maṃ, avadhi ma’’ntiādikaṃ ākāraṃ ye ca upanayhanti. Sanantanoti porāṇo.

Pareti paṇḍite ṭhapetvā tato aññe bhaṇḍanakārakā pare nāma. Te ettha saṅghamajjhe kalahaṃ karontā ‘‘mayaṃ yamāmase upayamāma; satataṃ samitaṃ maccusantikaṃ gacchāmā’’ti na jānanti. Ye ca tattha vijānantīti ye tattha paṇḍitā ‘‘mayaṃ maccusamīpaṃ gacchāmā’’ti vijānanti. Tatosammanti medhagāti evañhi te jānantā yonisomanasikāraṃ uppādetvā medhagānaṃ kalahānaṃ vūpasamāya paṭipajjanti.

Aṭṭhicchinnāti ayaṃ gāthā brahmadattañca dīghāvukumārañca sandhāya vuttā. Tesampi hoti saṅgati, kasmā tumhākaṃ na hoti, yesaṃ vo neva mātāpitūnaṃ aṭṭhīni chinnāni, na pāṇā hatā, na gavāssadhanāni haṭānīti.

Sace labhethātiādigāthā paṇḍitasahāyassa ca bālasahāyassa ca vaṇṇāvaṇṇadīpanatthaṃ vuttā. Abhibhuyya sabbāni parissayānīti pākaṭaparissaye ca paṭicchannaparissaye ca abhibhavitvā tena saddhiṃ attamano satimā careyya.

Rājāvaraṭṭhaṃ vijitanti yathā attano vijitaṃ raṭṭhaṃ mahājanakarājā ca arindamamahārājā ca pahāya ekakā cariṃsu; evaṃ careyyāti attho. Mātaṅgaraññeva nāgoti mātaṅgo araññe nāgova. Mātaṅgoti hatthī vuccati; nāgoti mahantādhivacanametaṃ. Yathā hi mātuposako mātaṅganāgo araññe eko cari, na ca pāpāni akāsi. Yathā ca pālileyyako, evaṃ eko care, na ca pāpāni kayirāti vuttaṃ hoti.

###Ja 428

Tattha puthu mahāsaddo assāti puthusaddo. Samajanoti samāno ekasadiso jano, sabbovāyaṃ bhaṇḍanakārakajano samantato saddanicchāraṇena puthusaddo ceva sadiso cāti vuttaṃ hoti. Na bālo koci maññathāti tattha koci ekopi ‘‘ahaṃ bālo’’ti na maññittha, sabbe paṇḍitamānino, sabbovāyaṃ bhaṇḍanakārako janoyeva. Nāññaṃ bhiyyo amaññarunti koci ekopi ‘‘ahaṃ bālo’’ti na maññittha, bhiyyo ca saṅghasmiṃ bhijjamāne aññampi ekaṃ ‘‘mayhaṃ kāraṇā saṅgho bhijjatī’’ti idaṃ kāraṇaṃ na maññitthāti attho.

Parimuṭṭhāti muṭṭhassatino. Paṇḍitābhāsāti attano paṇḍitamānena paṇḍitasadisā. Vācāgocarabhāṇinoti rā-kārassa rassādeso kato, vācāgocarā ca na satipaṭṭhānādiariyadhammagocarā, bhāṇino ca. Kathaṃ bhāṇino? Yāvicchanti mukhāyāmanti, yāva mukhaṃ pasāretuṃ icchanti, tāva pasāretvā aggapādehi ṭhatvā bhāṇino, ekopi saṅghagāravena mukhasaṅkocanaṃ na karotīti attho. Yena nītāti yena bhaṇḍanena imaṃ nillajjabhāvaṃ nītā. Na taṃ vidūti evaṃ ‘‘ādīnavaṃ ida’’nti taṃ na jānanti.

Yeca taṃ upanayhantīti taṃ ‘‘akkocchi ma’’ntiādikaṃ ākāraṃ ye upanayhanti. Sanantanoti porāṇo. Pareti paṇḍite ṭhapetvā tato aññe bhaṇḍanakārakā pare nāma. Te ettha saṅghamajjhe kolāhalaṃ karontā ‘‘mayaṃ yamāmase upayamāma nassāma, satataṃ samitaṃ maccusantikaṃ gacchāmā’’ti na jānanti. Ye ca tattha vijānantīti ye tattha paṇḍitā ‘‘mayaṃ maccusamīpaṃ gacchāmā’’ti vijānanti. Tato sammanti medhagāti bhikkhave, evañhi te jānantā yonisomanasikāraṃ uppādetvā medhagānaṃ kalahānaṃ vūpasamāya paṭipajjanti.

Aṭṭhicchinnāti ayaṃ gāthā brahmadattañca dīghāvukumārañca sandhāya vuttā. Tesampi hoti saṅgati. Kasmā tumhākaṃ na hoti? Yesaṃ vo neva mātāpitūnaṃ aṭṭhīni chinnāni, na pāṇā haṭā, na gavāssadhanāni haṭāni. Idaṃ vuttaṃ hoti – bhikkhave, tesañhi nāma ādinnadaṇḍānaṃ ādinnasatthānaṃ rājūnaṃ evarūpā saṅgati samāgamo āvāhavivāhasambandhaṃ katvā ekato pānabhojanaṃ hoti, tumhe evarūpe sāsane pabbajitvā attano veramattampi jahituṃ na sakkotha, ko tumhākaṃ bhikkhubhāvoti.

Sacelabhethātiādigāthāyo paṇḍitasahāyassa ca bālasahāyassa ca vaṇṇāvaṇṇadīpanatthaṃ vuttā. Abhibhuyya sabbāni parissayānīti sabbe pākaṭaparissaye ca paṭicchannaparissaye ca abhibhavitvā tena saddhiṃ attamano satimā careyya. Rājāva raṭṭhaṃ vijitaṃ pahāyāti yathā attano vijitaṃ raṭṭhaṃ mahājanakarājā ca arindamarājā ca pahāya ekakova cariṃsu, evaṃ careyyāti attho. Mātaṅgaraññeva nāgoti mātaṅgo araññe nāgova. Mātaṅgoti hatthī vuccati, nāgoti mahantādhivacanametaṃ. Yathā hi mātuposako mātaṅganāgo araññe ekako cari, na ca pāpāni akāsi, yathā ca sīlavahatthināgo. Yathā ca pālileyyako, evaṃ eko care, na ca pāpāni kayirāti vuttaṃ hoti.

Translation issues

Here i will record my draft translations, with some relevant discussion. I won’t go over all the issues, just address some key points.

Verse 1

“Puthusaddo samajano,
“Many voices shout at once,
na bālo koci maññatha;
but no-one thinks that they’re the fool!
Saṃghasmiṃ bhijjamānasmiṃ,
While the Saṅgha’s being split,
nāññaṃ bhiyyo amaññaruṃ.
none thought another to be better.

In the third line we have a locative absolute, which is sometimes taken in the sense of “despite …”. Normally that sense is conveyed by the dative absolute, and while it’s possible the locative absolute may serve the same function, I am not convinced it does here, so use the more normal approach, to express an ongoing action.

As for the final line, I am not at all sure how it should be construed. I think it means, “When everyone is fighting, no-one thinks any better of their opponent because of that”. But maybe it is, “no-one thought to take a higher path”?

BB has “None thinks himself to be at fault”, which seems to be from the commentary:

Nāññaṃ bhiyyo amaññarunti koci ekopi ahaṃ bāloti na ca maññi, bhiyyo ca saṅghasmiṃ bhijjamāne aññampi ekaṃ ‘‘mayhaṃ kāraṇā saṅgho bhijjatī’’ti idaṃ kāraṇaṃ na maññīti attho.
Not even a single one thinks that they’re a fool. Even more so when the sangha is splitting there is no other one who thinks “we are the cause of the sangha splitting”.

But I still don’t really understand what the commentary is getting at, especially what it means by “other”.

Verse 2

Parimuṭṭhā paṇḍitābhāsā,
Dolts pretending to be astute,
vācā­gocara­bhāṇino;
they talk, their words right out of bounds.
Yāvicchanti mukhāyāmaṃ,
They blab at will, their mouths agape,
yena nītā na taṃ vidū.
and no-one knows what leads them on.

In the first line, Parimuṭṭhā is found only in this context. While the commentary is undoubtedly right to explain this as “unmindful”, such a unique poetic usage justifies a strong term; check the etymology of dolt, it’s pretty good! More difficult is paṇḍitābhāsā, which most translators—apart from Ven Anandajoti—seem to take as “the speech of the wise”. However the commentary consistently takes bhāsā (or ābhāsa?) here as “appearance”, but in the sense of "fakery, pretence’:

Paṇḍitābhāsāti paṇḍitapatirūpakā ‘‘ke aññe jānanti, mayamevettha jānāmā’’ti tasmiṃ tasmiṃ atthe attānameva jānantaṃ katvā samudācaraṇato
Pretending wisdom, they think: 'We know as much as anyone else!" And so in this and that issue they act like they know.
Paṇḍitābhāsāti attano paṇḍitamānena paṇḍitasadisā
Thinking oneself to be astute, one appears the same.

In the second line, translators vary a lot; BB has “They talk obsessed by words alone.” But the point of the line is the word gocara, which should be read with an implied negative, thus “out of bounds, inappropriately, going off-topic, stepping out of line”. The commentarial reading is complex, and offers a few different approaches, but it has, for example:

Atha vā vācāya agocaraṃ ariyānaṃ kathāya avisayaṃ musāvādaṃ bhaṇantīti vācāgocarabhāṇino
Or else speech that is out of bounds is talk not in the domain of the noble ones such as lying.

Finally, in the third line, with mukhāyāmaṃ, Ven Bodhi appears to take this as yāma in the sense “control”, i.e. “Uncurbed their mouths”. However the commentary consistently explains with pasāreti, thus evidently understanding it as āyāma in the sense of “stretch, gape.”

Verses 3 & 4

Akkocchi maṃ avadhi maṃ,
‘He abused me, he hit me!
ajini maṃ ahāsi me;
He beat me, he took from me!’
Ye ca taṃ upanayhanti,
Those who cling to hate like this
veraṃ tesaṃ na sammati.
never settle their enmity.

The main translation issue here is the somewhat unusual verb upanayhanti. It’s related to upanāha, which means “hostility”, but also connects with a sense of “cling, bind”. I think “cling to hate” works pretty well.

7 Likes
2

Your current translation is beautiful Bhante.

2 Likes
3

Then I should wander alone.

2 Likes
4

‘gocara’ -unsuitable -for the noble ones?
‘avisaya’ - inappropriate topics (as in the ‘10 talks’)?

I wondered if ‘out-of-bounds’ and ‘domain’ were a bit heavy but I could be wrong.

with metta

5

You have us!

6

@sujato
I really like your translation (and hearing some of the reasoning behind your word choices)! I’m particualary fond of the second verse, very powerful in its description. In fact, I just cannot stop smiling reading it, the translation (and the images it evokes) just seems so, dare I say, perfect – Dhamma arguments gone seriously amiss… :open_mouth: (well actually this applies really well to many other things as well) :smirk:

2 Likes
7

Thanks so much. These are some powerful words, i really want to do them justice.

8

Stay. Choose your kalyanamittas well.:slight_smile:

with metta

9

Indeed, and I think you have. I’ve just been reading the verses again. What I like is your translation makes the scene so palbable and vivid, almost like being there. And in that way it’s really a ‘wake-up’ call, almost jolting the reader into reflecting deeply.

I’m also not clear on the last line of the first verse:

I tend to agree with your interpretation– “no-one thought to take a higher path”–like no one even considered a better way (than quarrelling despite the fact that the sangha was being split). Despite the Pali, I dont’ see how “no-one thinks any better of their opponent because of that” makes much sense in the context of the story, unless ‘of’ were replaced with ‘than’, implying that neither side can think straight due to being caught up in the quarrel; they can’t see that they’re all being fools.

2 Likes
10

Yes, I am quite uncertain about that line. The cool thing, though, is it’s one of the most liquid and beautiful lines in Pali. Just try chanting it!

nāññaṃ bhiyyo amaññaruṃ.

I wonder if @Brahmali has any thoughts about this?

1 Like
11

It seems aññā can refer either to people or to things, which means we have two possibilities:

They did not think of anyone else as better.

They did not think of anything else as better.

Following Warder, I think “although” or “while” is acceptable for the locative absolute, so perhaps:

Although the Order was being split,
No-one thought anything else to be better.

1 Like
12

Yeah, still not convincing. I think the real problem is that bhiyyo means “more”, not “better”.

I can think of two approaches. The commentary rather consistently connects bhiyyo with the previous line, “while (or though) the Sangha was splitting even more”. This seems reasonable, even though I still don’t really understand how they are using aññaṁ. But maybe it simply means “to think of the other”, i.e. to show some basic empathy.

Though the Saṅgha was splitting even more,
no-one thought of the other.

More of a stretch, it is notable that bhiyyo is commonly used with stock phrases such as appasannānaṃ pasādāya pasannānaṃ bhiyyobhāvāya. Maybe this is what it’s alluding to, in a compressed poetic idiom; i.e. that no-one was thinking about what this would be like to others, and whether this would inspire faith in those who saw what was going on. But, like I said, this is a stretch.

1 Like
13

I wondered if the 4th sentence is the 2nd sentence stated in positive terms. I think the Buddha sometimes says the positive and also states it in the negative terms for clarity.

“So no-one thinks that they’re a fool!”
…
No one thinks anyone is better than them, (no one thinks another may be better than them)… just my suggestions… :slight_smile:

with metta

14

Yes, this is essentially the commentary’s position, and it is not an unreasonable one. It’s common for poetry to compress or elide text like this. Still, I am not really sure exactly how to parse it. Having said which, I may return to this reading.

2 Likes