Rethinking dukkha and nirodha for greater clarity: Why cessation of the aggregates is not what we think

[dhamma012]

@thomaslaw

What is your present approach?

To find a way of contextualising the suttas such that their most straightforward interpretations, within that context, don’t contradict each other. If suttas agree with one another, there is less of a need to distinguish between them as ‘early’ or ‘late’, and less of a temptation to dismiss or change them.

[thomaslaw]

You may need to study both Pali and Chinese EBTs comparatively, not just Pali, for seeking an understanding of early Buddhist teachings.

[dhamma012]

Thank you for the suggestion.

[thomaslaw]

The following book by Choong Mun-keat may be useful on the issue/question regarding dukkha, nirodha, the cessation of the five aggregates:

The Fundamental Teachings of Early Buddhism: A Comparative Study Based on the Sūtrāṅga portion of the Pāli Saṃyutta-Nikāya and the Chinese Saṃyuktāgama (Series: Beitrage zur Indologie Band 32; Harrassowitz Verlag, Wiesbaden, 2000).

The particular collection of the Pali SN and the Chinese SA is mainly about knowing and seeing the four noble truths, the notion of anicca, dukkha, suñña (empty), anatta, and the middle way, which all are the core teachings of Early Buddhism.

For PDF, see below site:

Ven. Yinshun: Samyutta/Samyukta Buddhism

The following discussion topic/information posted on Dhamma Wheel Ven. Yinshun: Samyutta/Samyukta Buddhism - Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum and Provocative "Tricycle" article on "The New Tradition of Early Buddhism" - #56 by thomaslaw regarding Ven. Yinshun: Samyutta/Samyukta Buddhism may be also useful as an individual discussion topic for those who are interested in ‘studies in Early Buddhism/EBTs’ on this forum: One essential tradition regarding ‘studies in Early Buddhism and Mahayana Buddhism…

[ahmad.hazairin]

I enjoy reading your analysis. Very good. The emphasis of understanding is on conditionality, that everything disappears as soon as its supporting disappears. Thank you for your writing.

[Ric]

Dear All,

Please note that this thread was moved to the Discussion category, because it is more appropriate for broader debates which involve EBTs.

Instead, the Essay category is most appropriate for:

@system

Essays and analysis that treat the whole sutta, usually by experienced teachers…read more

This follows the model used in the traditional Theravadin commentaries, where the meaning of each sutta is “discussed” (aṭṭhakathā).

Please find here the complete description.

With Metta,
Ric

[Raftafarian]

@dhamma012

To find a way of contextualising the suttas such that their most straightforward interpretations, within that context, don’t contradict each other. If suttas agree with one another, there is less of a need to distinguish between them as ‘early’ or ‘late’, and less of a temptation to dismiss or change them.

Why not just acknowledge that Buddhism like every other major religion on earth evolved. Modern Buddhism is not the Buddhism of the the earliest texts and neither was the Buddhism of the DN, SN, AN, and MN.

If you read the Atthakavagga, liberation is the cessation of sanna, the end of being in the world. This is not the end of the five aggregates. Rather than twist and mutilate texts, leave them as they are and understand what each layer was getting at why they changed over time? If you continue to go down your path, you will never understand what Buddhism was. You will only convince yourself it was something it never was.

[ahmad.hazairin]

Yes, sometimes I feel the term EBT is too much in this forum. Instead of understanding the contexts of the paths of liberation that are interrelated to one another, what often emerges is a simple judgment that this text is earlier, this text is later; but it is obvious that there is no penetration of the Dhamma.