Rethinking dukkha and nirodha for greater clarity: Why cessation of the aggregates is not what we think

To find a way of contextualising the suttas such that their most straightforward interpretations, within that context, don’t contradict each other. If suttas agree with one another, there is less of a need to distinguish between them as ‘early’ or ‘late’, and less of a temptation to dismiss or change them.

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You may need to study both Pali and Chinese EBTs comparatively, not just Pali, for seeking an understanding of early Buddhist teachings.

Thank you for the suggestion.

The following book by Choong Mun-keat may be useful on the issue/question regarding dukkha, nirodha, the cessation of the five aggregates:

The Fundamental Teachings of Early Buddhism: A Comparative Study Based on the Sūtrāṅga portion of the Pāli Saṃyutta-Nikāya and the Chinese Saṃyuktāgama (Series: Beitrage zur Indologie Band 32; Harrassowitz Verlag, Wiesbaden, 2000).

The particular collection of the Pali SN and the Chinese SA is mainly about knowing and seeing the four noble truths, the notion of anicca, dukkha, suñña (empty), anatta, and the middle way, which all are the core teachings of Early Buddhism.

For PDF, see below site:

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I enjoy reading your analysis. Very good. The emphasis of understanding is on conditionality, that everything disappears as soon as its supporting disappears. Thank you for your writing.

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Dear All,

Please note that this thread was moved to the Discussion category, because it is more appropriate for broader debates which involve EBTs.

Instead, the Essay category is most appropriate for:

Please find here the complete description.

With Metta,
Ric

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Why not just acknowledge that Buddhism like every other major religion on earth evolved. Modern Buddhism is not the Buddhism of the the earliest texts and neither was the Buddhism of the DN, SN, AN, and MN.

If you read the Atthakavagga, liberation is the cessation of sanna, the end of being in the world. This is not the end of the five aggregates. Rather than twist and mutilate texts, leave them as they are and understand what each layer was getting at why they changed over time? If you continue to go down your path, you will never understand what Buddhism was. You will only convince yourself it was something it never was.

Yes, sometimes I feel the term EBT is too much in this forum. Instead of understanding the contexts of the paths of liberation that are interrelated to one another, what often emerges is a simple judgment that this text is earlier, this text is later; but it is obvious that there is no penetration of the Dhamma.

@dhamma012

Sādhu Sādhu Sādhu! :pray: :pray: :pray:

This is the best article I’ve ever read here on this forum and many other forums! :wink:

I will bump up this thread every now and then, by trying to add things to this topic/discussion, so all can get a chance to read this amazing article of yours. :lotus: :bodhileaf: :thaibuddha: :dharmawheel:

It is clinging to the aggregates that is severed and the aggregates, particularly thought and feeling, serve as the basis to make sense of experience.

When one is born, one is using their sense and aggregate faculties in overdrive. One is born with no insight into the 5 aggregates or even an understanding of such. Because of this, one is due to come into contact with some stress or a problem at some point which then urges one to question what is going on which then may lead one to examine the process of thought, or better, comes into contact with the ideas of the 5 aggregates which provides a structure to understand ones mind better. Learning to let go of the habit of endless thought can be hard, because thought also serves a function, and so it is learning to let go of that which is marked by further giving rise to pain, stress, dissatisfaction and suffering. That usually always boils down to the mind that is habitually holding onto things without realising it, and thus once the individual gets the hang of letting go and holding on - freedom arises. Thought serves utility but can also be unhelpful at times.

With ignorance as our natural condition, it is to be expected that one will encounter difficulties - especially from becoming entangled in thought.
Yet, the problems this causes leads to the illumination of the myriad poisons and hindrances which in turn leads to the growth of wisdom, concentration and ethical conduct. The one that ‘knows’ arises right in the middle of the myriad senses, aggregates and elemental factors that has led up to ones arising. One is in the very centre of the X that marks the spot!

The aggregates in themselves are neutral.

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