What's the best English translation for Samvara? (Or, The Meaning and Application of Samvara)

Prefixes such as saṃ have very general and vague meanings. The most common meaning for saṃ is “together”. For instance, saṃvāsa, meaning “living together”, is a combination of the stem vāsa, “live”, and the prefix saṃ. The exact same prefix is used in the same way in many Germanic languages, such as German and the Scandinavian languages, once again showing how culturally connected we all are.

But often saṃ has no discernible meaning. In these cases it is used more as a convention, perhaps because the word sounds better with a prefix, or some other reason not related to meaning. For instance, you find both cetanā and sañcetanā (= saṃ + cetanā) in exactly the same meaning, but used in different contexts.

With saṃvara, it seems the prefix has no particular meaning. The stem vara does not seem to be used by itself and so some prefix is presumably required.

Abhijjhā-domanassa occurs in the standard description of both sense restraint and satipaṭṭhāna. In the former case it is about avoiding the arising of these defilements, whereas in the latter case they have been overcome (vineyya loke abhijjhā-domanassa; where vineyya means “having removed”). So sense restraint is about holding the defilements at bay, whereas in satipaṭṭhāna they have been largely overcome. This is why sense restraint comes before satipaṭṭhāna in the gradual training.

I think it is fair to say - as the commentary to the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta does - that this roughly refers to overcoming the five hindrances. The first two hindrances are the main culprits for the existence of the remaining three, which means that once they have been removed, then all five are largely gone. I do not think, however, this is meant in an absolute sense. After all, satipaṭṭhāna practice is about removing the last remainder of the five hindrances. Only after successful satipaṭṭhāna practice is the mind ready for samādhi proper.

I believe he too uses “restraint”. (I have just checked, and he does indeed use restraint.)

As I have implied above, I don’t really think this works, because saṃvara comes well before the abandoning of the five hindrances in the gradual training.

Spot on.

Yes, I would agree. It is perhaps a bit more gentle than “restraint”.

I am very pleased to be able to share. This is one of the wonderful benefits of having studied this in detail for over two decades. :grinning: But personal reflection is so important. I am glad to see that you are considering all this so carefully. This, say the suttas, is a very important part of the path.

Well, yes, but it is also a matter of training the mind until it becomes more or less automatic. It is about shifting your perceptions in a relatively permanent fashion. You don’t get angry because you simply view people in a different way. But you are quite right, of course, that it takes persistence and commitment, but I wouldn’t say it is difficult.

Yes, clearly the lack of hair is a problem for us! Perhaps we need to resort to boot-straps instead? Or, in the absence of boots, thong-straps? With a bit of redesigning, we could admonish each other: “Pull yourself up by your thong-straps, Venerable!” Hmm … not sure. But I do like your quaint sense of humour. :slight_smile:

I agree that restrain inevitably will involve a degree of will-power. It’s so hard-wired into us that we can hardly avoid it. I think people often use will-power when their mental content does not match their self-perception. “I shouldn’t think that …”, suppress. It is just so automatic. And this is precisely why I believe the wisdom faculty needs to be emphasised. If we are not told about the alternative, then chances are we will just continue with our old habits. I believe the most profitable course is to put our attention on developing the wisdom/reflective side, and just allow the will-power to work according to habit. In other words, we don’t need to invest in the will-power side; it’s already strong enough, arising as it does from the sense of self. Gradually the balance will change and proper reflection will become our main tool in dealing with defilements.

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Dear Ajahn,

I feel so emotional around this topic that as I read your response I started crying. Thank you so much for your time here. :pray:t6:

Sadhu! Thank you for this.

This

and this

Just really take the pressure off!!

Thanks Ajahn! It really helps ease the self-doubt around the following approach to tv watching!

Really, thank you so much!! I’m very grateful. :anjal: :anjal: :anjal:

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Ajahn @sujato Would you say the reason for the word Samvara being so close to Samsara is because restraint is what is required to get out of Samsara and so is sort of the diametrical opposite? Just a thought I had.

I guess I mean that restraint is required to gain concentration and then liberating insight.

Word! :point_up_2:

In truth I don’t even see will-power itself as something that can be directly developed; I’d say that the only thing that is at all developable would be the fortunate bond of sati & pañña, and luckily for us, that’s all that it takes for the perfection of all action. In this sense will-power can only be a result, an after-effect - ‘yet’ there’s ample opportunity to practise sati and vimaņsa in such a way as to reinforce and bring about that particular result, and particularly when it is most needed.

Ultimately, perhaps saņvara and will-power are the product of decision-making; the conscious intention to attend in a certain manner that defies kamma and negates the animal consciousness. To me, that this is at all possible, is far more miraculous than all myths and wondrous tales combined! But the matter is more important and quite deeper than the mere question of the purport of “saņvara”. This “will” is one of the most puzzling phenomena and mis/understanding it directly affects pañña and ditthi.

Venerable I have enjoyed this opportunity of having this insightful conversation with you. As friend @sabbamitta noted, a nice thread and dialogue thanks to friend @anon29387788 :anjal:

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Mindfulness is an essential medium for change, at every level of the path (as is appropriate contemplation, yonisomanasikara). For example mindfulness is used for changing wrong view into right view:

""One makes an effort for the abandoning of wrong view & for entering into right view: This is one’s right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one’s right mindfulness.[2] Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right view. MN117

It is relevant for right effort as well, as can be obviously understood if one thinks of one’s practice. This sort of meta mindfulness is not often discussed or recognized, as the entire focus is often on the Four foundations of Mindfulness- only the seventh step of N8FP. Mindfulness and clear comprehension is a preparatory step for the satipatthana is mentioned in his book by @sujato, though later included in the satipatthana itself, it is not seen in other versions of it.

It doesn’t make for a huge difference where mindfulness appears- it should be relevant at every step of the path. Different formulations of the path can be had, according to one’s liking.

with metta

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Hey, Kay, I’m really happy to hear that my little input is of so much use for you!

By the way: I’m pretty sure your sila cant’t be that bad… :tulip:

It may be of interest to you what Ajahn Brahmali has to say about this:

https://tilorien.org/brahmali2017/english/day3morning.mp3
https://tilorien.org/brahmali2017/english/day3afternoon.mp3

(It’s from his retreat this year in Germany: https://www.samita.eu/en/media/audio-cds/#brahmali2017)

This sounds very familiar to me! :blush:

I’m really not a self-confident person. To be honest, I am a very master in self-dismantling, that’s one of my best skills… though not quite my favourite one; it feels pretty unpleasant to think of yourself as the most worthless person in the whole world.

But yes, meanwhile - with the help of the Dhamma - I learn to accept myself as I am right now, not perfect of course and not very self-confident either. Somehow it helps.

This seems to me to be a very good approach, and indeed the Buddha did exactly the same (MN 14):

And I too, Mahānāma, before my awakening while I was still the bodhisatta, not fully awakened, thought: ‘Pleasures of the senses are of little satisfaction, of much ill, of much tribulation wherein is more peril.’ and although this came to be well seen thus, as it really is, through perfect intuitive wisdom, I came to no rapture and joy apart from pleasures of the senses, apart from unskilled states of mind, nor to anything better than that. So I was conscious that I was not yet one unseduced by pleasures of the senses. But when, Mahānāma, I thought: ‘Pleasures of the senses are of little satisfaction, of much ill, of much tribulation wherein is more peril.’ and when this was well seen thus, as it really is, through perfect intuitive wisdom, and I came to rapture and joy apart from the pleasures of the senses, apart from unskilled states of mind, and to something better than that, then was I conscious that I was one not seduced by pleasures of the senses.

Although he knew very clearly that the sense pleasures had so many drawbacks he still couldn’t really let them go. Only when the pleasure he gained in meditation became strong enough could he fully let go of the sense pleasures.

Be patient with yourself! If he managed, you too will eventually manage… :wink:

And thank you so much for all your love! :heartpulse::pray:

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:heartpulse: :pray:t6: Thank you, I am looking forward to listening to both these talks!

Yes! I hear you!

And yes! :slight_smile: If I may say, it seems to me, from what little I have gleaned from your online presence, that you seem gentle, kind and deeply committed to an ethical and spiritual life. So I would say, your presence on this planet is of great worth and value. It’s certainly greatly appreciated here on D & D :slight_smile:

Wow! That’s a bit hair raisingly inspiring! Thanks for that!!!

My absolute pleasure, and thank you for all of yours. :pray:t6: :two_hearts:

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Thank you for your kind words, Kay.

You know, feeling worthless and being worthless are two completely different things! I honestly think that there isn’t anybody in the world who is really entirely worthless. At the very least they are good opportunities for others to show kindness towards (like you just did to me here… hihi :heartpulse:).

And the way we feel is just the way we are conditioned, by our upbringing or on other occasions, earlier or later. It has nothing to do with reality!

And of course this is the tricky part of the whole spiritual path to dissolve these conditionings, slowly and gently. With a lot of samvara, perhaps. Gently “restraining” or “curbing” ourselves away from the old patterns and building up new ones with wisdom. I’ve really learnt a lot about this from Ajahn Brahmali’s retreat this summer (link above in my earlier post)!

Probably this is also a good opportunity to express my gratitude to you for this, Ajahn @Brahmali! :pray:t3: :tulip:

And so we are back on topic again… :sweat_smile:
(We’ve probably never been really off topic, have we? - How about editing the title a bit so that people can see it’s not just about translation issues?)

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Well, not literally. But the Indian tradition loved making puns and plays on words, so there’s no reason you can’t make a new one!

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Any suggestions? :grinning:

Lack of restraint might not be the problem. You should instead use wisdom to realize that having a TV in your house is the issue, and that getting rid of it (or selling it) would solve the problem in an instance. :slight_smile:

It’s like junk food; the problem is not that you eventually cave in and eat some of it, it’s that you bought junk food in the first place. :wink:

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Quite right. :slight_smile:

Only it might be hard selling that idea to the other tv user. :smile:

I’m guessing the other TV user is a significant other.

If you explain the situation to him like you’ve done in this thread (surely it is affecting you quite a lot for a post to have made you shed tears!), about how much it has had a negative impact on your life and general mood, I think he will be even more dedicated than you to get rid of it, or at the very least to find an effective solution—since I imagine he in no way likes the idea of it causing you suffering. :slight_smile:

oh lol…

He doesn’t. He’s rather lovely.

But I’m not going to ask him to do something he’s not ready for.

And look, to be honest, I’m - as some of my comments above show - clearly not ready for that either.

When I lived on my own, I didn’t have a tv and frankly, I was an utter misery guts. Looking back on that time with a fresh perspective, I know that I was using too much force in my Practice, and not just in this area. The expectations were too high.

They were good tears though. :slight_smile: Tears of relief. I feel a sense of confidence in my approach now and feel comfortable in my own (current) understanding of samvara.

But you’re very kind samseva, it’s much appreciated. Thank you. :slight_smile:

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Okay then. :slight_smile: If you have a way to go about it that is working out well, that’s what’s important. :slight_smile:

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Thank you. :butterfly: :hibiscus:

What sīla refers to depends on context. In the gradual training, as described in MN 27, you have bodily good conduct followed by verbal good conduct. You then have a section of minor rules followed by contentment. Only then comes sense restraint. In this case sīla is restricted to the bodily and verbal right conduct.

But sīla is often defined more broadly as including proper mental conduct, e.g. in the ten courses of wholesome actions, dasa-kusala-kammapatha (see MN 41). In this case saṃvara is included in sīla. In fact saṃvara is often called indriya-saṃvara-sīla, clearly indicating where it belongs on the path. It is in this broader sense that saṃvara is required to fulfil sīla, and this is what you see at AN 10.61.

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Maybe: “How to use samvara for overcoming tv addiction”?

No. More seriously: “How to translate, understand and practise samvara?”
Or: “The meaning and application of samvara”

:thinking:

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I am familiar with this feeling that takes over the mind sometimes. It takes a lot of courage to admit it though and I think that this makes you far more honest and upright than you are willing to admit. :slight_smile:

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Thank you, @Sujith!

I think this “worthless” thing is just very common in the culture where I’ve grown up, and it causes a lot of suffering to many people. To understand that this is part of the way we are brought up was already a huge relief for me! And by the time - with the help of qualities like mindfulness, metta and care - I can learn to take a different perspective and to gain more distance. And if someone asks me like here

I am meanwhile able to answer freely. I don’t take the whole thing as seriously as I used to do when I was younger! Still the pattern is there, and when an occasion presents itself it will come out…

And as I already said in an earlier post here all this is just the result of some conditioning, and it is not what “we” really are… :tulip::heartpulse:

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