Hello. This Post is just intended for obtaining the exact transcript, to get a suitable title for it based solely on the transcript within the context of the workshop, and to capture the intact intention of the venerable.
(a very short transcript of a part of a Ven. Sujato’s Workshop)
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Possible Main Titles (for Editing) [Variations]
This red title is vetoable only by the venerable himself.
` How Not to fall into Early Buddhist Fundamentalism `
IMO (as of now): This transcript can be and should be “title-less” because it is just a tiny (albeit a very important) part which has always been title-less in the first place, unless the passage is christened by the venerable himself, of course . That said, after reading the discussions, I think it would be interesting to see different titles depending upon differences in interpretations of the talk/transcript with / or without factoring in the intention of the actual speaker [the venerable], as long as those “personalized” titles represent and cover the whole meaning of the exact transcript. Let me list them in the table.
Title Variations
Title variations | main reason given by contributors | Suggested by |
---|---|---|
(???) How to avoid falling into Early Pali Buddhist fundamentalism (or) (???) How to avoid falling into Pali Buddhist fundamentalism |
Pali Buddhist fundamentalism | @thomaslaw |
(???) How to avoid falling into Early Buddhist Dogmatism | Definition of Dogmatism is more appropriate | @SeriousFun136 |
How to avoid falling into Early Buddhist fundamentalism (the first-produced title) |
first interpretation of the passage | SDA |
How to be careful against falling into Early Buddhist fundamentalism | ‘avoid’ seems ‘too strong’ “careful” is inherent word in the passage |
SDA |
How to be careful from falling into Early Buddhist fundamentalism (I don’t know whether ‘careful from’ is correct usage or not, but I think it resonates more with the venerable’s “tone”.) |
‘against’ still seems ‘rather strong’ | SDA |
How Not to fall into Early Buddhist fundamentalism | this one conveys a more equanimous tone, while being true to the passage, imo | SDA |
(???) = not approved by the contributor yet (just inferred from discussions made).
Verbatim transcription (for Editing)
Another thing we need to be, … ahh … careful of … ahh … is to … is that we don’t fall into a … Early Buddhist fundamentalism. Ok. So, this is something which is quite easy to do. So we can say … Oh, yes … the … this is … this is right, because this is something is in Early Buddhism, and that’s wrong because that is something in later Buddhism. Ok? Early dosen’t mean right. Late doesn’t mean wrong. Ok? Well … this is … and this is not aslo a sectarian argument; it is not about saying that some … schools of Buddhisms are right because they are early and other schools of Buddhism are wrong because they’re late. Thats’s not the point. The point is simply to try to understand what it is that the buddha taught and try to put that in a context of the time and place, so that we can … ahh … appreciate what he’s saying better. Once we understand that we can then … put into context all the developments in the schools, we can understand why … ahh … certain ideas were emphasized, why somethings were changed, why somethings were added, why somethings were left out. And, we can look at the history; we can understand … how each of the Buddhist traditions has adapted the dhamma to their own time and place, and … what’s even more important: … we can understand how we are doing that here and now. Because, one thing is for sure that the Buddhism that you and I are practicing here and now … is not Early Buddhism; it is infact the very latest Buddhism that there is. Right? (asked while laughing) It is the Buddhism that’s happening right now. So, it’s not about trying to recreate some imagined pristine past, Ok, that’s what fundamentalism is. It’s about trying to learn … from what the buddha said, so that we can integrate that and apply that in the most effective way that we can in the present. So, it’s very important to remember this.
Some editions in Verbatim transcript
Symbol |||| Explanation |||| Suggested by
- |-|-|-| -|-|-|-|-
none yet |||| - |||| -
Condensed form “Final” version (for Editing)
Another thing we need to be careful of is that we don’t fall into a[n] [an]* Early Buddhist fundamentalism. Ok. So, this is something which is quite easy to do. So we can say, “[Oh,]** yes, this is right, because this is something [is]*** in Early Buddhism, and that’s wrong because that is something in later Buddhism”. Ok? Early dosen’t mean right. Late doesn’t mean wrong. Ok? Well this is not aslo a sectarian argument; it is not about saying that some schools of Buddhisms are right because they are early and other schools of Buddhism are wrong because they’re late. Thats’s not the point. The point is simply to try to understand what it is that the buddha taught and try to put that in a context of the time and place, so that we can appreciate what he’s saying better. Once we understand that, we can then put into context all the developments in the schools, we can understand why certain ideas were emphasized, why somethings were changed, why somethings were added, why somethings were left out. And, we can look at the history. We can understand how each of the Buddhist traditions has adapted the dhamma to their own time and place, and what’s even more important: we can understand how we are doing that here and now. Because, one thing is for sure that the Buddhism that you and I are practicing here and now is not Early Buddhism, it is infact the very latest Buddhism that there is. Right? It is the Buddhism that’s happening right now. So, it’s not about trying to recreate some imagined pristine past. Ok, that’s what fundamentalism is. It’s about trying to learn from what the buddha said, so that we can integrate that and apply that in the most effective way that we can in the present. So, it’s very important to remember this.
Some editions in “Final” version
Symbol |||| Explanation |||| Suggested by
- |-|-|-| - |-|-|-|-
* |||| [an] is changed to a[n] in …
// don’t fall into a[n][an]Early Buddhist //
→ reason ← |||| SDA
** |||| I missed the word “Oh” which is added as …
// So we can say, "[Oh,] yes, this is right, //|||| SDA
*** |||| second “is” is deleted from …
“because this is something[is]in early buddhism”|||| SDA
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Followings are Some Notes and References:
Not for editing (unless necessary)
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Why this wiki?
- At least this short clip (about 1 minute 48 seconds) of the venerable’s talk, I think, must be present in text form (if it isn’t already), for easy and undistorted quotations.
- Transcribed from: Early Buddhism Course - Workshop 1 - Session 1 - 23 February 2013 / Timestamp around: 7 min 12 sec to 9 min
On searching for the teachings of some other venerable today, I stumbled upon a Ven. Sujato’s talk, a part of which I like very much, where he warned how one can [inadvertdently] become an Early Buddhism fundamentalist, explained how to avoid it by setting the right attitude on the buddha’s teachings one may have encoundtered, and how to integrate and apply them in most effective way. The timestamp is from 7:12 to 9:00 min.
I have transcribed it as much as I can, English is not my first language, so listening errors may very well be present, that is why I put this post in wiki for any one to kindly edit the transcript, as well as the title if necessary (and if possible for the topic title) or any other part.
The link to youtube video is provided, starting from 7:12. For easy reference for checking, I’ve also uploaded that part of the audio the link to which is set to private. Again, please feel free to delete if it is not appropriate to upload it [the trimmed audio] here.
Youtube Video: starts from 7:12
Audio Clip: the same one as in the top
Stream Audio Clip (Private) - for reference by SDA | Listen online for free on SoundCloud
Main Title (Un-edited / for reference)
- How to avoid falling into Early Buddhist fundamentalism (a very short transcript of a part of a Ven. Sujato’s Workshop)
Verbatim transcription (Un-edited / for reference)
Another thing we need to be, … ahh … careful of … ahh … is to … is that we don’t fall into a … Early Buddhist fundamentalism. Ok. So, this is something which is quite easy to do. So we can say … Oh, yes … the … this is … this is right, because this is something is in Early Buddhism, and that’s wrong because that is something in later Buddhism. Ok? Early dosen’t mean right. Late doesn’t mean wrong. Ok? Well … this is … and this is not aslo a sectarian argument; it is not about saying that some … schools of Buddhisms are right because they are early and other schools of Buddhism are wrong because they’re late. Thats’s not the point. The point is simply to try to understand what it is that the buddha taught and try to put that in a context of the time and place, so that we can … ahh … appreciate what he’s saying better. Once we understand that we can then … put into context all the developments in the schools, we can understand why … ahh … certain ideas were emphasized, why somethings were changed, why somethings were added, why somethings were left out. And, we can look at the history; we can understand … how each of the Buddhist traditions has adapted the dhamma to their own time and place, and … what’s even more important: … we can understand how we are doing that here and now. Because, one thing is for sure that the Buddhism that you and I are practicing here and now … is not Early Buddhism; it is infact the very latest Buddhism that there is. Right? (asked while laughing) It is the Buddhism that’s happening right now. So, it’s not about trying to recreate some imagined pristine past, Ok, that’s what fundamentalism is. It’s about trying to learn … from what the buddha said, so that we can integrate that and apply that in the most effective way that we can in the present. So, it’s very important to remember this.
"Condensed form" (Un-edited / for reference)
Another thing we need to be careful of is that we don’t fall into [an] Early Buddhist fundamentalism. Ok. So, this is something which is quite easy to do. So we can say, “Yes, this is right, because this is something is in Early Buddhism, and that’s wrong because that is something in later Buddhism”. Ok? Early dosen’t mean right. Late doesn’t mean wrong. Ok? Well this is not aslo a sectarian argument; it is not about saying that some schools of Buddhisms are right because they are early and other schools of Buddhism are wrong because they’re late. Thats’s not the point. The point is simply to try to understand what it is that the buddha taught and try to put that in a context of the time and place, so that we can appreciate what he’s saying better. Once we understand that, we can then put into context all the developments in the schools, we can understand why certain ideas were emphasized, why somethings were changed, why somethings were added, why somethings were left out. And, we can look at the history. We can understand how each of the Buddhist traditions has adapted the dhamma to their own time and place, and what’s even more important: we can understand how we are doing that here and now. Because, one thing is for sure that the Buddhism that you and I are practicing here and now is not Early Buddhism, it is infact the very latest Buddhism that there is. Right? It is the Buddhism that’s happening right now. So, it’s not about trying to recreate some imagined pristine past. Ok, that’s what fundamentalism is. It’s about trying to learn from what the buddha said, so that we can integrate that and apply that in the most effective way that we can in the present. So, it’s very important to remember this.
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Thanks,