Discussion for Bilara users

Bhante @sujato, you have added AN 4.106 to the English translations, which makes sense. Could it also be added to Bilara so that other translators could do a similar thing?

Adding: Maybe @carmi can add AN 4.106 to all translation projects that include the AN Fours? It’s a ghost sutta! :ghost:


Happy to help with this Ayya @sabbamitta. Bhante added the root AN 4.106 file to the bilara-data repository 15 months ago. AN projects that have been created since then display the root file in Bilara but earlier projects like yours and Gabriel’s don’t.

Bhante @sujato I wonder if the issue of the Bilara UI not refreshing in these cases can be fixed, or if there’s a workaround I can apply like deleting and re-entering the sutta project in _project.json?

1 Like

That sounds scary to me—would that not make all my work get lost? :scream_cat:

1 Like

Don’t worry Ayya, I wouldn’t try a workaround without testing it first :smiley: Let’s see what Bhante and Blake recommend :pray:

1 Like

The ghost of the sutta is haunting us! :ghost: :ghost:

1 Like

I can’t further edit my post above, so start a new one here.

  • goat butcher: AN 3.99 → AN 3.100 on SC

  • gold, ingot: Dhp 229 → Dhp 230 on SC

  • goldsmith, purifying gold: AN 3.100 → AN 3.101

    the links shouldn’t be given in this form:
    <a href='an03.100.1-10'>AN 3.100 (i-x)</a>, <a href='an03.100.11-15#goldsmith'>AN 3.100 (xi-xv)</a>,

    but rather
    </span> <a href='/an3.101'>AN 3.101:1.1-7</a>, <a href='/an3.101'>AN 3.101:1.8 ff</a>

  • goldsmith, crafting any kind of article: DN 11 → DN 10 on SC

  • gong: Mil 2.3.14 → Mil 3.3.14 on SC

  • ground far from the sky: This simile is given as SN 5.10, but I can’t find it anywhere, not at SN 5.10, nor at Snp 5.10, neither SC’s nor AtI’s which are different. We should perhaps remove such items from the list.

  • hands clapping: Mil 2.3.8 → Mil 3.3.8 on SC

  • heartwood, not-self: SN 35.193 → SN 35.234 on SC

  • hooks: SN 35.189 → SN 35.230 on SC

  • horse, thoroughbred, Jhāna: AN 11.10 → AN 11.9 on SC

  • horse, unbroken colt: AN 11.10 → AN 11.9 on SC

  • house, fireproof: SN 35.202 → SN 35.243 on SC

  • house, flammable: SN 35.202 → SN 35.243 on SC

  • house, with poor roof: AN 3.105 → AN 3.109, 110 on SC

  • Illness, man recovering from: DN 11, DN 12 → DN 10 on SC (the other two don’t have the simile here, possibly due to abbreviation in the MS)

  • Inscription in rock or water: AN 3.130 → AN 3.132 on SC

  • Iron ball aflame, eating or swallowing an, restraint: Dhp 307 → Dhp 308 on SC

  • island, refuge in Dhamma: Snp 2.10 → Snp 5.11 on SC

  • ivory carver: DN 11 → DN 10 on SC

  • jail, person thrown in: AN 3.99 → AN 3.100 on SC

  • king, hearing a lute: SN 35.205 → SN 35.246 on SC

  • king, seeing no danger after victory: DN 11 → DN 10 on SC

  • lake, person stranded in the middle: Snp 5.10 → Snp 5.11 on SC

  • lake, spring-fed: DN 11, 12 → DN 10 on SC

  • lamp, in a dark house: Mil 2.1.14 → 3.1 15 on SC

  • line drawn on water: AN 7.70 → AN 7.74 on SC

  • loan, man taking out a: DN 11, DN 12 → DN 10 on SC

  • log in a stream: SN 35.200 → SN 35.241 on SC

  • lotus, pond, jhāna: DN 11, DN 12 → DN 10 on SC

  • lute, disassembled: SN 35.205 → SN 35.246 on SC

  • magic show: Thig 14 → Thig 14.1 on SC

  • man, repaid by king: Mil 2.3.9 → Mil 3.3.9 on SC

  • man, seeking heartwood, not-self: SN 35.193 → SN 35.234 on SC

  • meat thrown into a fire: AN 7.70 → AN 7.74 on SC

  • mirage, the body: Thig 14 → Thig 14.1 on SC

  • moon, waning: SN 5.10 → remove link, as the simile can’t be found, not in SN 5.10, nor in Snp 5.10, neither SC nor AtI

  • muñja grass: this simile exists only in Thanissaro’s translation; Sujato has “let me gird myself” in that place (Snp 3.2:16.1) → as Thanissaro’s translation isn’t on SC, this item should be left out

  • mural painted on wall: Thig 14 → Thig 14.1 on SC

  • murderer with sword, heedfulness AN 7.46 → AN 7.49 on SC

  • ocean, crossing over the: SN 35.187 → SN 35.228 on SC

  • ox, eating corn: SN 35.205 → SN 35.246 on SC

  • ox, joined by a single yoke: SN 35.191 → SN 35.232 on SC

  • pastures: AN 11.18 → AN 11.17 on SC

  • pit of embers, sensuality: Thig 14 → Thig 14.1 on SC

  • poison, man drinking, volition: Mil 2.3.11 → Mil 3.3.11 on SC

  • polished shell: DN 11, 12 → DN 10 on SC

  • pool of water, clear or muddy: change link <a href='an01.45-046'>AN 1.45-46</a> to <a href='an1.41-50'>AN 1.45-46</a> for SC

  • pool of water, in a mountain glen: DN 11, 12 → DN 10 on SC

  • potter or potter’s apprentice: DN 11, 12 → DN 10 on SC

  • prison, man released from: DN 11, 12 → DN 10 on SC

  • raft, eightfold path: SN 35.197 → SN 35.238 on SC

  • rafters of house, defilements: Dhp 153 → Dhp 154 on SC

  • rain, sent by devas: AN 7.70 → AN 7.74 on SC

  • rams butting heads: Mil 2.3.8 → Mil 3.3.8 on SC

  • reeds or rushes, drawn from their sheaths: DN 11, 12 → DN 10 on SC

  • reflection of one’s face in a mirror, mind-reading: DN 11, 12 → DN 10 on SC

  • riddle-tree: SN 35.204 → SN 35.245 on SC

  • ridge-pole of house: Dhp 153 → Dhp 154 on SC

  • river, carrying everything with it: AN 7.70 → AN 7.74 on SC

  • road, eightfold path: AN 11.18 → AN 11.17 on SC

  • salt, in water: AN 3.99 → AN 3.100 on SC

  • seed, capable of sprouting: AN 3.33 → AN 3.34 on SC

  • seed, rotting in a field: SN 5.10 → SN 5.9 on SC

  • shack, flammable: SN 35.202 → SN 35.243 on SC

  • shadow that never leaves: Dhp 1 → Dhp 2 on SC

  • sheaf of barley thrashed repeatedly: SN 35.207 → SN 35.248 on SC

  • shore, far, nibbana: SN 35.197 → SN 35.238 on SC

  • shore, far, external sense media: SN 35.200 → SN 35.241 on SC

  • shore, near, self-view: SN 35.197 → SN 35.238 on SC

  • shore, near, internal sense media: SN 35.200 → SN 35.241 on SC

  • slavery, man freed from: DN 11, 12 → DN 10 on SC

  • snake, pulled from its slough; DN 11 → DN 10 on SC

  • sound of drums: DN 11, 12 → DN 10 on SC

  • storekeeper: Mil 2.3.10 → Mil 3.3.10 on SC

  • stream, sinking in the middle of: SN 35.200 → SN 35.241 on SC

  • stream, snared by a whirlpool: SN 35.200 → SN 35.241 on SC

  • stream, washed up on high ground of: SN 35.200 → SN 35.241 on SC


Hello @sujato, @carmi.

@Cittadhammo and I are planning the French translations together and more translators are likely to join us soon. We agreed that @Cittadhammo would focus on suttas while I will, at first, focus on the site until completed. With respect to this, there are a number of pages and elements of the site which I would find a priority to translate as they would help the French user to navigate the site and reach “deeper” content. At this time many of these are still flagged as unsafe. I know I asked this question before, however, I wonder if there is a revision roadmap for these pages that I could work with? Or alternatively, would it be possible to translate them already and update them once they are revised?



@carmi, where do I find the publication information in SuttaCentral’s jungle of repositories? I would like to make some slight changes to the information given with my translations. And when looking at them, I also noticed that there is a completely outdated URL:

This just leads into nowhere-land! It’s long deprecated. I guess it should go to SC’s bilara-data repository instead?

What I can say is that my plan is to first of all complete my work with the ongoing Publications project. When that is done, I’ll revise the relevant site pages. I can’t say how long this will be, but months rather than weeks or years!

I’d still recommend doing something else for now, but if you do translate them, no harm done, you might just lose some work, that’s all.

It’s in the v2 file in the main bilara-data repo.


Thank you Bhante @sujato.

1 Like

If you’d like to do something useful in the meantime, one thing would be to start with the “index of names” and do there what I am doing with the “index of similes”: check each single link, and in case it doesn’t lead to what it says, find the correct Sutta.

It’s a lot of work, but someone has to do it at some point. I am doing it for the similes, and I am not planning to do it for all indexes. The index of names has a multiple of the number of links that the index of similes has, so that would really be a lot of work. But it is necessary to get that thing off the list of “unsafe” texts.

Maybe you can just start, and someone else can step in to help?

If you have questions or are stuck somewhere, just ask me. I may already have found out a few regularities, and you don’t have to re-invent the wheel.

1 Like

Thanks Ayya @sabbamitta I’ll go through all of your publications details and update the sc-voice source links to the bilara-data locations.


No need, @carmi. Now as I know where it is I can do that myself and create a pull request. I want to make slight changes to the wording anyway. Thank you!

1 Like

Sure, I can help with that. Although I want to continue translating “safe” site pages in the meantime, I still have some to go through.

What is your workflow for that? You go through the public site like https://suttacentral.net/names and check if each link there lands on the right page?

1 Like

Ah, good, I wasn’t sure about that.

There are actually two sorts of possible problems:

  1. the link has a wrong structure and doesn’t work because of that, like for example: <a href='an03.100.1-10'>AN 3.100 (i-x)</a>
  2. the Sutta that is indicated by the link doesn’t have what you are looking for, i.e. in my case, the simile indicated is not found in the Sutta pointed to by the link; or in your case, the respective name doesn’t occur.

The first one is relatively easy to fix: in this case, for example, you remove (in your translation) the “0” in the part href='an03.100.1-10', and also the .1-10` doesn’t exist in SC numbering; then you make a note in a post here so that others can see it and correct it in their language.

The second one can be trickier. The most frequent reason I found for a simile not being in the Sutta indicated by the link is that the numbering systems differ on the two websites. If you look into my lists you see lots of examples for that. For example we find AN 7.70 which stems from Access to Insight, but the Sutta is actually AN 7.74 on SuttaCentral.

So in such a case, if I don’t find the simile in AN 7.70, I go to AN 7.70 on AtI to look what it is and then have to find that Sutta on SC … that’s the most time consuming thing. Because you can’t expect the same terminology on SC, so you can’t just search for a passage from the AtI Sutta; but you have to search according to meaning and what you remember the wording could be; preferably, of course, within the same section. So AN 7 Suttas should be found within AN 7. Sometimes you may just click through that chapter; but the numbers may be considerably apart in some cases.

Another problem that I found sometimes is that apparently the abbreviation is handled differently on the two websites. The most prominent example for that are DN 11 and 12, which are frequently mentioned in the simile index, but don’t have any of the indicated similes on SC. Instead, so far I found all the similes in DN 10 (which seems not to be included in the translated Suttas on AtI).

And in very few cases I couldn’t find the indicated simile anywhere at all. In which case I left this item out in my translation.

I am now through about 75% of the simile index, doing a little every day.

Actually, just remembered, I already collected a few here, but there must be many more. But so you have a start and can see what I did.

1 Like

Ok thanks @sabbamitta :pray: we’re keeping _publication.json and _publication-v2.json up to date at the moment

1 Like

Ah good, thanks! (Oh, D&D wants more characters …)

Added later:
I have now made my changes and created 2 pull requests

Apart from the slight changes in wording I wanted to apply to the the translation process and translation description (and adding those where they weren’t there), I have still

  • changed the deprecated Voice links to current SC links

    Where there have been SC links they pointed to the master branch which also doesn’t exist any more, so I changed that to published instead.

  • In _publicatin.json I have removed Voice as having the first edition. Now the first edition is on SC everywhere.

    When we first did this, I wasn’t using Bilara yet and published my translations on Voice, while they weren’t yet on SC. Now things are different. It is not possible to discern what has been created according to the old workflow, so I just made everything SC first. After all, there should be hardly any Sutta left that didn’t have bigger or smaller changes made in Bilara.

The problem with the master branch URL does also exist for other translation projects, but I only changed my own. So @carmi, there’s still something for you to do.

1 Like

Ok, so I guess it might be good to start doing that while I actually translate the page of Index of Names, no?

1 Like

Yes, that’s what I am doing with the similes.

And just looking again to that post where I started collecting problems with the “names” index, I haven’t proposed any fixes there, just pointed out some problems I happened to notice.

If you start doing that page you can let me know so that initially we can both look there until you find your workflow. I found mine while doing the similes.

1 Like

Ok, sounds good. I just started on mn-guide-sujato but I will let you know when I start on the names. Thank you for the suggestion and for the details on this.

1 Like