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split this topic #466

7 posts were split to a new topic: The Dhammapada & Dhammapada-style EBTs


#467

@brahmali


This is my own inclination here just thought the wording “for doing it” in reference to sexual intercourse is a bit juvenile. However, if one was trying to abstain from using the words “sexual intercourse”, the words coitus, congress, or copulation are all suitable alternatives.

Again just personal taste here.


#468

Thanks, this is a good point. I have translated the Pali literally, but in this case perhaps unnecessarily so. I shall consider rephrasing it.


#469

Ah I see now – kammaniyañceva, meaning reading or fit for an act. Well in that case, no harm in sticking close to the pāli.

And one more for the day.

Aniyata 2


“he is be dealt with” – should be “he is to be dealt…”


#470

Could you say “doing the act?”
I also find “doing it” to be a bit juvenile. In my head I imaging someone snickering after they say it. :slight_smile:


#471

i[quote=“Snowbird, post:470, topic:9548”]
doing it
[/quote]
I have never done it in a chair or while sitting. Therefore the conclusion that the act is actually sex may be unfounded.

Given the Vinaya’s excrutiatingly detailed prohibitions on orifice use elsewhere, I find the ambiguity of “the act” significant. It could be as simple as a touch of regretful lustful longing. Or it could be far more.


#472

NP 4


“When it had been died” —> “When it has been dyed

NP 5


“Whatever acetic” —> “Whatever ascetic


#473

“paprais” -> “papra is” - AN 1.47 PlayBooks and Mac Ebook versions. The web version is fine.


#474

NP 6 - he commit an offense —> he commits an offense

NP 7 - he commit an offense —> he commits an offense
Also occurs in the permuations of NP 7


#475

The same error as above in NP 9’s permutations – “he commit an offense”

NP 10


“and stands six time” --> “and stands six times”


#476

It looks like Sariputta’s theragatha is incomplete, both in the original Pali and in its translation.

Also, a lot of (all?) the Pali texts from the Sutta Nipata have some non-sutta reference text in them (e.g. “Chulachomklao Pāḷi Tipiṭaka 2436 (1893)” here).
Is this normal?

Same goes for a lot of the Pali suttas from the Udana & Itivuttaka.


#477

Blurb text to SN 12.18:

A wanderer named Timbaruka approaches the Buddha while he is on alms round and asks whether pleasure and pain are created by oneself, by another, by both, or by chance. Explaining why he rejects all these options, the Buddha asserts that suffering arises due to conditions.

The wanderer Timbaruka doesn’t approach the Buddha on alms round but just goes up to him, exchanges greetings and sits to one side. The one who met him on alms round was Kassapa the naked ascetic in the previous sutta. Also, in this sutta it is not about suffering, but about pleasure and pain (correct in the first sentence, not so in the last). Probably a copying error.

Suggestion:

A wanderer named Timbaruka asks the Buddha whether pleasure and pain are created by oneself, by another, by both, or by chance. Explaining why he rejects all these options, the Buddha asserts that pleasure and pain arise due to conditions.


#478

Actually, I looked at the Pali and something very interesting is happening.

  • Timbaruka is asking about pleasure and pain (sukhadukkhaṃ)
  • The Buddha answers about suffering (dukkhakkhandhassa)

And what makes this so fascinating is that the Buddha is answering Timbaruka’s real question, which is about choices. Timbaruka is overthinking things and wondering whether choices should be made regarding pleasure/pain for one’s self or an other. We conventionally make choices based on pleasure or pain and Timbaruka is lost trying to find out what the basis for making correct choices by trying to walk backward from pleasure or pain to a trustworthy basis for choice.

And the Buddha cuts through the confusion with surgical precision and gently suggests to Timbaruka that the extremes of “me” and “you” are best avoided by choosing the middle way (i.e., “us”). The problem disappears when one cuts the cake and the other chooses their half. Then there is no pleasure or pain and the entire mass of suffering and consciousness evaporates.

Thank you for a new sutta to read!


#479

SN 12.25 With Bhūmija

Blurb text
Sāriputta is asked by Venerable Bhūmija as to the origin of pleasure and pain. He replies that the Buddha teaches that pleasure and pain originate by conditions. Moreover, all those who offer opinions as to the source of suffering are themselves part of the web of conditions, as they cannot state their views without contact. Ānanda reports the exchange to the Buddha, who praises Sāriputta’s answer.

Should be “who offer opinions as to the source of pleasure and pain” (that’s what it says in the sutta).

#sc 3.1
“Reverend, the Buddha said that suffering is dependently originated.
“Paṭiccasamuppannaṃ kho, āvuso, sukhadukkhaṃ vuttaṃ bhagavatā.

Should be: the Buddha said that pleasure and pain are dependently originated.

#sc 5.1 and again #sc 9.1
“Consider the ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. In the case of those who declare that pleasure and pain are made by oneself, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact.”

Ellipses are lacking at the end of the segment.


#480

Hi, the translation says he “stood” to one side, but the Pali says that he sat.

My 1st correction! :grin:


#481

How about “private and concealed seat convenient [for intimacy].”


#482

NP 13 - if he makes on --> if he makes one

NP 14 - As I’ve come to understand this rule it’s referring primarily to sitting rugs instead of blankets.

NP 15 - This rule I also wonder about the use of “sitting-blankets”. In regards to the picture below, it’s just a question of grammar. “if you, too, will stay in the wilderness”


#483

SN 12.26

#sc5.1
“In the case of those ascetics and brahmins who declare that suffering is made by oneself, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact.”

Ellipses are lacking at the end of the segment.


SN 12.27

#sc1.2
Ignorance is a condition for choices.
“Avijjāpaccayā, bhikkhave, saṅkhārā;

Quotation marks are lacking at the beginning of the sutta.


SN 12.28

#sc2.5
This is called death. …
idaṃ vuccati maraṇaṃ.

Ellipses should be removed, nothing has been abbreviated here.

#sc5.14
Such a noble disciple is called ‘one accomplished in view’
Ayaṃ vuccati, bhikkhave, bhikkhu diṭṭhisampanno itipi

Should be "Such a mendicant … "


#484

For this sentence in Vinaya Pac 40 the English translation is erroneously provided below on the Pali line, but should appear alongside This monk is big and strong: One might even suspect him of eating human flesh!”

Also, the informal description of Pac 40 states that it concerns food and drink. “A monk who consumes unoffered food or drink must confess the offense.” But this isn’t the rule that regulates drink, other than allowing water, so I’m thinking it should say food alone.

Why is some of the text in green? Is that an editing convention?

Metta!


#485

SN 12.29 Ascetics and Brahmins

#sc2.10
They understand choices, their origin, their cessation, and the practice that leads to their cessation.
saṅkhāre parijānanti, saṅkhārasamudayaṃ parijānanti, saṅkhāranirodhaṃ parijānanti, saṅkhāranirodhagāminiṃ paṭipadaṃ parijānanti.

For the sake of consistency it should perhaps be “They completely understand choices …”