Hola,
Estoy empezando con Bilara en Español, si alguien quiere revisar las traducciones por si viese algo o quisiese sugerir alguna cosa estos son los enlaces:
¡Gracias!
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It appears that someone would have to be logged in to Bilara to use your links. At least, I can say that I don’t see anything when I click on them.
Umm, they are not published yet so I think they are trapped on Bilara.
Perhaps ask in this thread how other translators are dealing with this:
One possible (but not ideal) method would be to share a link to your github repository where your data is stored
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Bilara can only be viewed by someone who is logged in into a GitHub account. But the texts, i.e. the result of your work, can be seen by anybody in the GitHub repository on the “unpublished” branch, here.
Perhaps this is currently the best way for you to get some feedback (before a “proofreading” function is implemented for Bilara; but in this case a proofreader will need a GitHub account). Right now, so I understand, you just want to show people what you’re doing and hopefully find someone who’d be interested to become a proofreader in the stricter sense.
Hmm. In the mean time there is no other way to share work? Would it be helpful to have a web app (similar to SC-Light) that could display a text from the github repository? That would be fairly easy for me to create.
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From the “unpublished” branch? That would be very helpful for this purpose, I suppose! 
My proofreaders so far read what has been published, but for my case that’s okay.
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Hola, @Hugo
Viví en Mexico durante 5 anos y estoy interesado en las traducciones al español. También estoy familiarizado con DeepL. ¿Estaría interesado en “pre-translations” de DeepL/ES? Necesitaríamos trabajar con usted para definir el glosario EN/ES. Tenemos un proceso para cargar estas “pretraducciones” en Bilara.
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No tengo mucha experiencia con el github o bilara pero sí tengo cuenta y pude leer sus traducciones. Sin comparar el Pali al español detalladamente- que tomaría más tiempo - quiero felicitarte por la traducción fluída y corriente. Actualmente estoy en búsqueda de traducciones al español para un proyecto y no ha sido fácil. Muchas variaciones y algunos errores. Gracias por su esfuerzo.
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hola @karl_lew, no conozco DeepL. He mirado ahora un poco por encima a ver que es. La verdad que hago traducciones muy amateur en mi tiempo libre según me da, y no sé si podría dedicarle tiempo a un proyecto serio, aunque la idea de definir un glosario decente me ronda la cabeza desde tiempos inmemoriales y sería un gran avance.
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@marajina, me alegro que te puedan ser útiles. Esas dos cualidades que mencionas son centrales cuando intento traducir algo 
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Para mostrar, vemos:
- Aqui está la traducción de SN3.3/DeepL
- Y aquí está la traducción de SN3.3/Hugo
El proceso propuesto es cargar la traducción de DeepL en Bilara para que ustedes puedan revisar, editar y publicar como deseen.
¿Qué piensam ustedes?
(¿Puedo escribir en inglés? Estoy aprendiendo portugués en este momento. Entonces es muy confuso para mí escribir, pero puedo leer bien el español. 
)
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Well, to be honest, it’s not something I use or recommend. I tried it in the past, but I ended up starting from scratch because you are pushed in the direction of pretranslation, instead of creating your own…
IIt also has the disadvantage, in my opinion, that people, even with good intentions, start with that, make a few changes, and publish it, giving priority to quantity instead of quality. This happened in the past, not with the use of pretranslations, but with rushing to publish, as in the Bosque Theravada website. As valuable as it is to have it rather than nothing, the translations contain numerous errors in grammar and word usage.
I think it would be good to know the opinion of Bhante @sujato and the team at Sutta Central and Bilara to see what they think about using pretranslations in Bilara.
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I think there are different workflows, and I know colleague translators who find automated pre-translations helpful. I personally never liked pre-translations and found editing them takes me just as much time as doing them from scratch.
When I started with Bilara there were not pre-translations available, and meanwhile, as I am about 3/4 through the canon, I don’t see a reason for me to use them. There are already so many of my own “pre-translations” in the Bilara translation memory that using different pre-translations would only confuse things.
But this is my personal point of view, and for me, my workflow works very well in this way. But I know that for others this is different.
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I believe that offering pre-translation as an optional feature for translators can be beneficial. Personally, I have found it helpful to use DeepL in conjunction with Bilara by pre-translating sections. This has provided me with a structure and a basis for creating a glossary. However, it is crucial to note that I always review and correct each section before publishing any translations. Compared to other machine translators, DeepL has proven to be more accurate and its glossary feature has significantly reduced the time needed for reviewing and correcting.
While I do not believe that pre-translation should be considered a standard format in Bilara, it can be an advantageous option for translators who find it useful. Currently, all CAT solutions in the market incorporate MT features using DeepL or other AI models, which professional translators across different industries find helpful.
Admittedly, the usefulness of these tools in the context of Early Buddhist Texts (EBT) may be debatable. However, with the availability of customizable and trainable AI models, the results obtained are quite satisfactory. Ultimately, the decision of whether to use pre-translation lies with the translator. Nevertheless, one principle remains clear: do not (ever) publish pre-translated texts without proper thorough review. But I think it’s improbable that any translator at SuttaCentral has ever done or contemplated such a thing.
Actually, Bilara already offers a feature that retrieves similar previously translated sections for reuse, which can also be considered pre-translation. When utilizing this feature, one must exercise caution to ensure the existing translation is accurate and entirely relevant to the text being translated.
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I agree that we should not publish unreviewed SC pre-translations by DeepL. Translation is an exercise in mindfulness.
I am using pre-translations for PT, building a glossary on @Gabriel’s existing work. Having studied Bhante Sujato’s EN translations, I have found insight and value in studying PT translations, so I am studying them as well. For example, where Bhante Sujato writes “unconditioned”, in PT that becomes “inconditional”. But these two words have slightly different meanings. The word “inconditional” in PT means “wholehearted”. And THAT for me was an insight I never got in EN. THAT single word opened up a new vista of meaning. So yes, I am rather enthusiastic about mindful translation.
The Buddha was extremely and amazingly consistent in his choice of words. DeepL is very consistent as well, so Bhante’s own very careful word choice come across quite well. DeepL is very good at tracking key phrases. But it needs very mindful oversight on each key phrase. Indeed key phrases are what the main glossary work is about. Key phrases are what the Buddha repeated again and again. Key phrases must be translated with complete mindfulness.
DeepL also handles minutiae well. Buddha spoke in four levels of quotes, so handling quotation marks is difficult. Bhante Sujato’s quotation marks have been through many fierce cycles of review, and EBT-DeepL is able to track them consistently. As someone losing their eyesight, I listen to the suttas instead of reading them, so quotation marks are completely irrelevant to me. The Tipitaka is an oral tradition. The mindfulness exercise here is listening. Quotation marks are essentially a modern “pre-translation” that bypasses the oral tradition.
Yes. Humans should translate the Tipitaka. But I am old, dying soon, and losing my eyesight. And I really want to listen to the PT suttas. DeepL is helping me do exactly that. As with all translations, other, better translations will arise.
Knowing español as well, I am inclined to read ES suttas as well. Reading them will help me rebuild my Spanish fluency, allowing me to regain that connection with my past Mexican and Venezuelan life. So I will be reading and hearing ES suttas as well, providing myself a Spanish context for the Tipitaka.
Pre-translation should not be an exercise in mindless quantity. Pre-translation should support the spark of insight as well as the meeting and growth of new spiritual friends.
----- sn45.3:4.3 -----
pli: Iminā kho etaṁ, sāriputta, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ yathā sakalamidaṁ brahmacariyaṁ, yadidaṁ—kalyāṇamittatā kalyāṇasahāyatā kalyāṇasampavaṅkatā”ti.
en: This is another way to understand how good friends are the whole of the spiritual life.”
es-en: Esta es otra forma de entender cómo los buenos amigos son el todo de la vida espiritual.»
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I haven’t made use of GitHub or Bilara yet (it’s on the list) but have started translating the basics. The pre-translation sounds useful for my endeavor. My language is regionally Caribbean Spanish- Cuban and Puerto Rican specifically. Not implying Castellano doesn’t work but what I’ve found inspiring in Bhante Sujato’s work is the fluency and immediacy of the language; what the people in the audience would themselves speak in a respectful setting.
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Yes, this has been an amazing an gift in relation to understanding.
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts… It makes me want to check DeepL in deep but not possible right now.
In Spanish, it’s the same, but I would prefer “incondicionado” for asankhata. “Incondicional” is usually used in contexts like “amor incondicional” (unconditional love) or “seguidor incondicional,” and there is a kind of “I” and a doing action in “incondicional” that I feel doesn’t align well with anatta/nibbana. In my experience, it is always used associated with feelings or someone doing something. I can’t make it fit into my poor understanding of nibbana
I would like to know a bit more about the glossary feature; could you please point me to some good sources? Or is the website good enough?
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Here is the en-pt DeepL glossary. As you can see, the format is simple.
One entry I recently added was a correction for the translation of Bhante’s “laywomen”. DeepL/PT was blindly literal and it came out “mulheres leigas”, which sounds very bad (it had a sense of “harem” 
). The fix was the following glossary entries as guided by @Gabriel’s own work.
laywomen | discipulas leigas
laywoman | discipula leiga
I double checked the MN44 DeepL/PT translation and DeepL did indeed write “inconditionado”. So my memory of “inconditional” was incorrect, and was based on my memory of the definition of “inconditonal” from the Collins PT dictionary.
The insight I had here with “whole hearted” is that the Buddha teaches “releases of the heart”. For example:
MN43:27.5: “How many conditions are necessary to remain in the signless release of the heart?”
For many years I struggled with heartfelt things going wrong in my life. My heart was constrained and that made me sad. So to read “release of the heart” was a very very important phrase for me. It was a phrase that gave me hope that by following the Noble Eightfold Path, I could experience Right Freedom, the full release of the heart from all fetters and ties.
So to read “incondionado” and see “wholehearted” made a tremendous connection for me. It said to me that the unconditioned is simply the full release of the heart from all grasping at greed, hate and delusion. Greed, hate and delusion are conditioned. They have no heart.
Life is indeed very demanding.
Ayya @Sabbamitta and I have been working for years on a list of key phrases used in the Sujato and Sabbamitta translations on SuttaCentral. These key phrases are essentially the “bones of the suttas”, the phrases that connect the suttas, the phrases repeated by the Buddha countless times. Ayya Sabbamitta’s DE phrases are derived from her own work and Bhante Sujato’s EN phrases are managed by both of us.
These key phrases are guiding the PT Ebt-DeepL translation. For example, the blue dots are the key phrases used in MN44, which is the large orange dot. The other colored dots are the suttas used by their connected blue dots:
The key phrases for MN44 include: “signless”, “substantialist view”, etc.
And it is the key phrases which form the bulk of the glossaries for DeepL. We are using DeepL to maintain the deep rigor of the Buddha’s consistency as seen through Bhante Sujato’s and Ayya Sabbamitta’s translations.
Therefore it is the translation of the key phrases which deserves the most strict mindfulness. It is the ES glossary that needs the most eyes on it.
So the approach proposed is to focus on key phrases, translating them in groups as defined by the nikayas with longer suttas. MN44 is one such longer sutta. Translating MN44 requires translating its dependent connections in SN and AN. Those connections in SN and AN are typically fully fleshed out and specifically dedicated to one or two key phrases.
If ES follows the same approach of translating by key phrase group (vs translating by Tipitaka serial order), then I’ll be able to cross-check the PT/DeepL translations with the ES translations. Your example of “inconditional” vs “inconditionado” is a perfect example of the value of such collaboration. I’ll be able to track @Hugo and @Marjina ES discussions and improve the quality of PT/DeepL translations which I currently listen to on sc-voice.net.
Hopefully, such an effort would not be an oppressive burden for any of us in that the value would simply be in well-focused discussions of the “inconditionado” vs. “inconditional” nature.
BTW, to explore the bones of MN44, see here
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