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#347

Well, actually, double Ven. Brahmali seems to me a wonderful thing rather than a problem! :wink: :smiley:

Does this show only for the Saṅghādisesa rules for you as it does for me?


#348

:smiley: yes.


#349

Sutta MN 117 The Great Forty—Bhikkhu Sujato

At SC 5.2, The item ⑤ is not translated as shown below with a translated text of “⑤There’s no this world.”.

Also at SC 7.2, The item ⑤ is not translated as shown below with a translated text of “⑤There is this world.”.

SC 5.2‘There’s no meaning in①giving, ②sacrifice, or ③offerings. ④There’s no fruit or result of good and bad deeds. ⑤There’s no this world. ⑥There’s no afterlife. There are no duties to ⑦mother and ⑧father. ⑨No beings are reborn spontaneously. ⑩And there’s no ascetic or brahmin who is well attained and practiced, and who describes the afterlife after realizing it with their own insight.’
‘①Natthi dinnaṃ, ②natthi yiṭṭhaṃ, ③natthi hutaṃ, ④natthi sukatadukkaṭānaṃ kammānaṃ phalaṃ vipāko, ⑤natthi ayaṃ loko, ⑥natthi paro loko, ⑦natthi mātā, ⑧natthi pitā, ⑨natthi sattā opapātikā, ⑩natthi loke samaṇabrāhmaṇā sammaggatā sammāpaṭipannā ye imañca lokaṃ parañca lokaṃ sayaṃ abhiññā sacchikatvā pavedentī’ti—

SC 7.2‘There is meaning in ①giving, ②sacrifice, and ③offerings. ④There are fruits and results of good and bad deeds. ⑤There is this world. ⑥There is an afterlife. There are duties to ⑦mother and ⑧father. ⑨There are beings reborn spontaneously. ⑩And there are ascetics and brahmins who are well attained and practiced, and who describe the afterlife after realizing it with their own insight.’
‘①Atthi dinnaṃ, ②atthi yiṭṭhaṃ, ③ atthi hutaṃ, ④atthi sukatadukkaṭānaṃ kammānaṃ phalaṃ vipāko, ⑤atthi ayaṃ loko, ⑥atthi paro loko, ⑦atthi mātā, ⑧atthi pitā, ⑨atthi sattā opapātikā, ⑩atthi loke samaṇabrāhmaṇā sammaggatā sammāpaṭipannā ye imañca lokaṃ parañca lokaṃ sayaṃ abhiññā sacchikatvā pavedentī’ti—


#350

Thanks for this!

I don’t think this is so much a bug as perhaps a translation error: Please report any errors or typos!

That said, my hunch is that Bhante may have felt it gives a more meaningful rendition to take “natthi ayaṃ loko, natthi paro loko” together and translate it the whole point as “There’s no afterlife”. Of course, it is just a guess and Bhante @sujato himself would have to clarify things.


#351

This ⑤natthi ayaṃ loko, ⑥natthi paro loko, and ⑨natthi sattā opapātikā; ⑤atthi ayaṃ loko, ⑥atthi paro loko, and ⑨atthi sattā opapātikā is about the four mode of birth of any beings. The birth of egg born, womb born and moisture born is concern with “⑤natthi ayaṃ loko, ⑥natthi paro loko; ⑤atthi ayaṃ loko, ⑥atthi paro loko” [only for animal and human realms] and the spontaneous born is concern with “⑨natthi sattā opapātikā; ⑨atthi sattā opapātikā” [for all other realms except animal and human realms].

We (those egg born, womb born and moisture born) are born in this world (ayaṃ loko) and after death if we are to be in the same existence (bhava) and there is no suitable egg, womb or moisture to be born, we (that is the gandhabba) will be placed in the paraloko (Netherworld) waiting for the suitable egg, womb or moiture for birth to take place. This is an important concept and if we have wrong view about it, there will be no chance of attaining the Sotapatti.


#352

I’ve got the readers badge even though I just scrolled through a 100 messages. It’s not really a bug, but I felt like cheating.


#353


double of the title ‘Shorter Discourse on simile of heart wood’ ?


#354

Indeed. The phrase “there is no this world” doesn’t really make sense by itself. The phrase as a whole is talking about whether there is anything beyond this world; “this” world and “the other” world is a pair that stems back into the brahmanical texts.

This is a bug with updating the site. Hopefully it will correct itself soon!