When it comes to legacy translationsâi.e. translations that we have inherited from elsewhereâcorrections will be limited to obvious typos and mistakes. While we try to source the best quality work we can, itâs not our job to edit or correct other peoplesâ translations.
We do not make any changes to the original language texts in Pali, Sanskrit, etc. The only exception is occasional details of punctuation, markup, and the like, but not the actual text itself.
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DN8:15.4: Ayaáč vuccati, kassapa, bhikkhu samaáčo itipi brÄhmaáčo itipi.
When they achieve this, theyâre called a mendicant who is a âtrue asceticâ and also âa true brahminâ.
Close segment with double closing quote, or else ellipses and then double closing quote. The part of the Buddhaâs speech that has been translated ends here.
Both are correct. We decided stylistically to use âthemselvesâ in such cases, but I suspect âthemselfâ will become the standard form over the next decade or so. Maybe weâll update it then.
Oh, my bad. Thanks, Iâve now fixed this for German.
And I still found the following:
Ye ca arĆ«paáčáčhÄyino is translated âand others stuck in the formlessâ in Iti 73 and âand others established in the formlessâ in SN 5.4 and SN 5.6.
It has not been done so far.
Hmm ⊠I still see âAuthorâ, and I donât see the translation for yena mayaáč bhotÄ brahmunÄ nimmitÄ in DN 24:2.7.18 and DN 1:2.6.7.
As to Pajapati, he doesnât appear in this context? Am I missing something?
I only see the word âprogenitorâ in MN 1 and MN 49. In other texts where Pajapati appears, like for example SN 11.3, the name is untranslated.
Nor can I now âŠ
Well in some cases it is simply not expanded further, so in such cases the quote has to close here.
The MS is inconsistent in its punctuation, but I think in dn3 it gets it right.
I donât see a ti after satthÄ devamanussÄnaáč buddho bhagavÄ in DN 3.
So, this was my revision of your revision. Thank you so much for always explaining your choices in these threads. Itâs very helpful for me, and certainly for other translators too!
I have also posted some feedback to the notes here, not sure if you saw this. Perhaps in the future we should collect all these things in one place.
Itâs an interesting case. In the âstuckâ versions, we then have a reversed verse that speaks of those ânot stuckâ, whereas in the âestablishedâ versions the negative verse is not found. But itâs only with the negative version that makes clear it must mean âattachedâ, not simply âreborn intoâ. Iâll make them all"stuck".
punctuation
satthÄ devamanussÄnaáč buddho bhagavÄ.â
Let me know if I have messed up any of these cases.
Iâll look at them, thanks, but you can post all corrections here, that was more of an overview discussion.
[quote=âsabbamitta, post:6, topic:29204â]
[quote=âsujato, post:264, topic:26960â]
I think I have fixed all these cases now.
I think I have it now!
No, just explaining my thought process! Use Progenitor throughout.
With the change of yoniso to ârationalâ I see a number of instances in AN 6.58 where âreflecting rationallyâ is in lowercase at the beginning of a sentence (perhaps elsewhere too?).
ud5.3:13.1: âCakkhumÄ visamÄnÄ«va,
âAs a well-sighted man would avoid rough paths,
Thereâs still a âwell-sighted manâ left for cakkhumÄ. Itâs in verse however, so it may even be intentional.
Finding some more:
AN4.192:11.1: SeyyathÄpi, bhikkhave, cakkhumÄ puriso udakarahadassa tÄ«re áčhito passeyya mahantaáč macchaáč ummujjamÄnaáč.
Suppose a man with good eyesight was standing on the bank of a lake. Heâd see a big fish rising,
iti44:5.1: âDuve imÄ cakkhumatÄ pakÄsitÄ,
âThese two elements of extinguishment have been made clear iti44:5.2: NibbÄnadhÄtĆ« anissitena tÄdinÄ;
by the seer, the unattached, the poised.
SNp1.9:8.5: Kacci dhammesu cakkhumÄâ.
Does his eye sees clearly in all things?â
Does his eye see clearly in all things.
AN10.84:15.1: So vatÄvuso, bhikkhu âime dasa dhamme appahÄya imasmiáč dhammavinaye vuddhiáč virĆ«áž·hiáč vepullaáč ÄpajjissatÄ«âti netaáč áčhÄnaáč vijjati.
Itâs quite possible for a mendicant to achieve growth, improvement, or maturity in this teaching and training without giving up these ten qualities.
Quite impossible.
I also see some instances of âit is quite possibleâ that start with a lowercase at the beginning of a sentence.
AN5.151:2.3: Na kathaáč paribhoti, na kathikaáč paribhoti, na attÄnaáč paribhoti, avikkhittacitto dhammaáč suáčÄti, ekaggacitto yoniso ca manasi karoti.
They donât disparage the talk, the speaker, or themselves. They listen with unscattered and unified mind. They attend properly.
Hhm, yes, but TBH I am getting more dissatisfied with the âattentionâ part. In a case like this or say an2.125 & 6, what it really means is to âapply the teachings internally through rational or systematic introspectionâ. None of the renderings Iâve seen really capture this at all. Let me think about it some more.
Yes, itâs not an easy one. After a first impulse of following your change to ârationalâ Iâve then stepped back because I donât see a real improvement to what I currently have in German. And itâs many files! Unlike you I canât just change them with a few clicks with Regexâfirstly because I donât master Regex, and secondly because German grammar is so much more complex, compared to English, so that I really have to check each instance individually.
Currently I have âgrĂŒndlichâ for yoniso (meaning âthoroughlyâ, âgoing to the groundâ) and âoberflĂ€chlichâ (âsuperficiallyâ) for ayoniso. Iâll leave it until I really have something that is more convincing than that. The change will probably keep me busy for a couple of days.
How about âthorough considerationâ and âshallow considerationâ? Just thinking aloud, nothing definitive.
And as an aside, when we start the âBilara roadmapâ, the single most useful feature for me at the moment would be to be notified about changes you make to the English translation. Currently I have set GitHub notifications so that I am notified about your changes going from âunpublishedâ to âpublishedâ. But as these change messages always include all the automatic changes (each time again!), I currently have to scroll through 55 Sutta files just for no change at all in order to find the one little detail that has in fact been changed; and then I might even miss it in this mass.
For the notes itâs even worse, as there is almost no note that doesnât quote a Pali word where there will then be the automatic Nilakkhana adaptation.
PÄsÄda is often translated as âpalaceâ or âmansionâ, but in early Pali it meant a âstilt longhouseâ. As here, it is an elevated place from which one can observe the street below.
âPalaceâ has double quote at the beginning and single quote at the end.
The words sukheti and pÄ«áčeti are sometimes rendered âmake themselves happy and pleasedâ, sometimes âbring happiness and joy to themselvesâ, etc.
Ariyena sÄ«lakkhandhena is sometimes translated âentire spectrum of noble ethicsâ, sometimes ânoble spectrum of ethicsâ. In AN 4.198 for example we find both variants in the same Sutta.
In the list of psychic powers, âappearing and disappearingâ seems to be sometimes lacking. The Pali is often abbreviated, so I would take it that itâs meant to be the complete list each time.
DN3:1.12.3: âcaáčážÄ, bho gotama, sakyajÄti;
âMaster Gotama, the Sakyan clan are rude,
The noun is singular, the verb is plural. You can of course say âthe members of the Sakyan clanâ, then it is plural, but the clan as such is singular.
I am not sure how this is handled in English, but in German the verb would be singular here.
Thank you so much for always explaining your choices in these threads. Itâs very helpful for me, and certainly for other translators too! 